Cha Paladins

[Xianio]

Well Serafiel brought this up on the Bards thread so I figured I'd make a suggestion to weaken them.

I believe he stated that he would be able to reach 56 ac and 53 ab. Now that's insane. Of course the buffs are short term but still way to much I say.

What we could do is put a limit on divine shield. The entire reason why cha. paladins are so great is because they're unhittable while still having great AB from there buffs. So I say we remove there AC.

Suggestion: Divine Sheild gives Cha bonus with <12 Paladin levels. Divine sheild gives 3-4 cha. modifier with >=12 Paladin levels.

Reasoning: At level 12 you gain +4 to your ab from divine favor. That's a very big buff. I wouldn't mind +3, it's good but nothing that'll destroy people AND with AC paladins having only 11 levels it'll allow dispels to work nicely. Favoring the paladin slightly but nicely all the same.

Cha paladins have a ton of saves, unresistable damage and great smite ab. Taking away there massive AC unless they mulitclass wouldn't be a bad thing in my mind.

[Rafael]

54 ac 53 ab Gnarr but well I like your idea, That should prevent them from having everything.

[T3hRedMage]

What about those with 3-4 levels? Is this just for pure paladins? or paladins with 12 or more levels?

I don't really understand the math either.

Divine sheild gives 3-4 cha. modifier with >=12 Paladin levels. ?

Gives charisma mods with greater than equals 12 paladin levels? @@;

[Casas]

Weaken? They are already weaker then STR paladins that just take 13 CHA. Pure CHA focus paladins are not that strong.

[Musekaze]

yeah once they run out of Divine favors, and turn undead, they become extremely weak. STR pallys still have some AB and a little AC to offer after their stuff runs out.

[Rafael]

My cha Paladin has 19 turn undead's... all of them last 10 rounds..... I hardly had problems hitting people even without divine favor, going through dr chars or Mages like through butter and not getting hit by most people all the time.

[Xianio]

Cha pallies aren't weaker then strength pallys. They have higher saves, same damage, higher AC, higher smites and all for probably 5 less ab...which on a strength pally reaches 45ish. So 40 ab and all other parts better.... I'd take the cha. pally over the str one.

[Casas]

Same damage? STR pallies hit 34 STR, CHA one's will hit 24 STR if they want maxed CHA.

34 STR with 2h weapon 18 base dmg with 7 divine dmg.

24 STR with 34 CHA will hit 7 (or 10 if they went 2h like the above) base dmg and 12 divine damage. The above also has higher AB and doesn't have to rely on surge as much.

[Rafael]

what kind pof rubbish is that? Paladins have 2 charisma buffs, giving them +9 charisma withoutany gear. Having 30 str and 28 charisma or 28 str 30 charisma is the easies't thing on earth and you get more then 40 ab with that.

[T3hRedMage]

Strength paladins are all surge too... They don't basically have two lives * Lay on Hands * for the price of one like charisma paladins.


....Could nerf lay on hands for charisma paladins somehow.

[Casas]

He said pure CHA pallies.

CHA one's will hit 24 STR if they want maxed CHA.

That is what a 'pure' CHA pally is. You wanna talk hybrids, that's another talk.

Yea hybrids could start:

16, 12, 10, 14, 8, 15.

Bump STR up to 18 and CHA up to 18. Then have 30/30 after a long haul of reaching 260k (I'm assuming the GMW nerf is in to make it less useful - so they have to buy a weapon for good damage).

Downsides:

220 HP ( with toughness )
Mostly dodge AC ( sneaks own )
All surge ( shield, might, favor, prayer, hs, sonic )
Has to choose between Conc or Taunt ( if not human then disc only ).

[Rafael]

OR sacryfice 2 str points be human have conc,disc,taunt and 10 tumble.

[Casas]

Then he's at 9 STR modifier and still has all the weakness but the skill points.

You don't seem to understand how poorly those kind of paladins are against sneaks. 220 HP vs 10d6 sneaks takes a 12 STR longbow 3 flurries. Just three times on average to take that out.

Paladins didn't use to have a problem against sneaks because of the throwing axe dilemma, but they lost all enchanted one's, lowering their AB to about 29 max (12 DEX). Since sneaks have more then enough patience these days to wait out a one to two minute buff, I deem sneak the winner every time.

Remember the surge plays a huge role in the fight. They have to cast through 1 to 3 rounds of just buffing up. Meanwhile they get hacked at. However, we could add a -Conc on the paladin full plate, all of them.

[T3hRedMage]

I don't think that will affect too much. Paladins tend to use their buffs before the opponent gets there, not while they're swinging. They typically only use divine might/ shield in the heat of battle.

A pure barb can kill a strength paladin.. I haven't seen a pure barb kill a pure charisma paladin. * One that doesn't try to get 34 charisma.. That's pretty silly since might caps at 10. *

I think nerfing lay on hands for paladins is nice. Make it .5 Pally Level x Charisma Mod. So if they are level 20 with 10 mod, they'll only heal 100 HP.

[Xianio]

When I think pure cha pally I think "pure for our server" therefore over a 10 mod doesn't really make sense to take.

However simply because a str pally can do 6 damage more that doesn't mean that they're better. They still lose out on saves/ac/healing and unblockable damage. Besides, any pure paladin no matter the type is going to lose to a pure barb/fighter without "the surge." A cha. pally simply has more "surges" to offer. I mean ya your ab might not be the highest but you'll still hit people with -5 ab from your max but you have 13ish chances to be nearly unhittable.

P.S. Paladins can still have very high ab while using ranged weapons. I mean grab a +5 sling with +5 mighty and d6 elemental damage. With the cha. damage and favor damage zazing high ab and high damage from a tiny bullet!