Bards...again

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:46 am

He wasn't pumping up dex? His Sorc is stillspell. and wouldn't say he has so muc gold >.>
Shauna you forgot Rage so it's 46 and Gnarr it's vs 48 ac if you take out expertise for bards,42vs 48 if you assume the bard had 50 perform in the moment he was cursing the barbarian. I don't see why it would be so bad that bards had 50 ac at lvl 20 instead of 48(or 53 expertised) and a max ac of 53 if they were Playing their lvl 20 for long enough to get enough cash for the +5 hardies and+5 cloak.

isiana · Post by **isiana** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:52 am

I thought shauna was a halfling sneaking mage.

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:24 am

Red mage was talking about Ancient Rage, Not Shauna.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:43 am

Ancient Rage has about 240 HP too. Not a dwarven wizard 300 HP, but not too bad.

isiana · Post by **isiana** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:43 am

Oh ancient rage. my bad, i thought you meant shauna.

LittleLostThief · Post by **LittleLostThief** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:39 am

I just gotta say this...

I was fighting against one of Serafiel's level 14 bards with Molly, who is a ranged sneak.

Serafiels bard killed me or helped his team kill me (doing 95% of the work) with a 3:1 ratio. And he was still complaining that it was unfair and that bards suck.

And I could only kill him once every third life of mine. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:28 am

Not true lol. And the next round when you got will saves bumped up your dmg it was 1:1, sometimes 2;1 when I got lucky and mY bard was an elf any other race would stink up against a ranged sneak.

LittleLostThief · Post by **LittleLostThief** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:55 am

I didn't change from the end of that last round to the beginning of the next. Those were always my will saves the life after you killed me the first time.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:23 am

Beating a ranged sneak with a bard isn't hard. Just don't give them enough room to get close enough to get a sneak attack. You have the listen to handle that task easily I don't see how "ranged sneak" is a viable option. Other then of course AA"s who don't use sneak attack. But then bards are just as effective as anyone else really...save that they'll always spot them.

isiana · Post by **isiana** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:24 am

You could silence yourself, bards don't get spot as a class skill.

Post by **Rary** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:10 pm

T3hRedMage wrote:A barbarian can get 44 AB with 13 strength mod. That's enough to hit 63 AC without rolling 20's. And we're saying that 50 is a big deal. 2 of that is from mage armor.

20 BAB, 13 Mod, 5 Weapon, 5 Amulet, 1 focus

If you look at it that way, they get 46 ab then. But you forgot that the amulet is for show because any barbarian using it is toast. Also your song drops it even more. Either they have 37 ab against a bard or they have 42 and die even faster.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:53 pm

Something I'd also like to bring up: Why are we sticking to pure bards for these complaints? Pure bards are powerful but by no means are they the most powerful version of the bard class. I mean a bard/paladin is one of the most powerful multiclasses in the game. Gives the bard wicked saves and a tad bit more hp for nearly no cost at all. I mean on our server you lose the aura but for around +8 ac/damage I'd take it in a second.

It's nice to say that bards aren't wickedly powerful (but they are) but it's impossible to say that smart multi'ing with a bard isn't insane.

I still say that expertise with a bard is to strong and so far nothing has shown differently here. The best defense so far has been that a barbarian with a +5 ares ammy could beat them. However if you do that all the bard needs to do is cast sound burst and they win. (Sound burst ignores PfA and with -5 from haste even with two +5 will save rings you're not going to make the save easily)

A95 · Post by **A95** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:58 pm

Cursed haste is still -5 I thought its -3 now.

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:24 am

yeah, rary changed it so it takes listen, less MS , and less saves.

pretty sure its -3.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:45 am

because this topic was so long i didnt read most of it i just read the first post and the important posts (casas, lost little, and Rary)

so im just going to give my thoughts on the takeing expertise from bards.

i dont think its a bad idea. i gota say i fought with this one pure bard with many different builds of mine and i dont think i even hit him more than 10 times the entire time. i never managed to kill him. so reducing a bards possible ac doesnt sound so bad. (also feels its kinda cheep play to have an aura that does dmg and then make a ac build to let the arua do most the work)but most bards that are not pricks dont do that. =( huray for the decent people out there.