Greater Magic Weapon Change

[Rary]

Then you hurt the ones that use those weapons with no GMW.

Opening up GMW and dispel would provide the same balance here as well.

[Casas]

This would not give the mages more power

If it's only dispellable by a rod, then no, it does not give anyone more power. But at the same time, the person fighting GMWs damage increase has to shell out even more money to get rid of his opponents weapon buff (and dispel checks are not sure fire). The damage I calculated was a pure L20 paladin, which would be very difficult to dispel his GMW. The damage is the biggest issue, nothing more. If you get to buy some cheap weapon and yield a +5 off it, and your opponent has to shell out 50k for his weapon, and another 36k for Gdispel rod (that only has a CHANCE of dispelling the GMW) that isn't much of a nerf in my opinion.

+1 ENCHANTEMENT bonus per 4 caster levels. Maximum +5 at level 20. Weapons are dispellable as normal. The spell is self only. The spell lasts for 1 turn (10 rounds) per caster level.

No, that doesn't fix the damage issue, only delays it - and screws up quiet a few builds in the process.

-5 % vulnerability

That's +1 damage received for every 20 damage points of that type.. So if you got hit with 100 damage cold spell you would take 5 more damage. I don't see how increasing by 5 damage to 100 points would be solving the problem. Unless your opponent only had 105 HP and then it would matter.

[Musekaze]

-5 % vulnerability

That's +1 damage received for every 20 damage points of that type.. So if you got hit with 100 damage cold spell you would take 5 more damage. I don't see how increasing by 5 damage to 100 points would be solving the problem. Unless your opponent only had 105 HP and then it would matter.[/quote]

it would make ray of frost more useful

well, missed the fact that its only by a dispel rod. then by all means make GMW dispellable. but for the lack of GMW we'd have to make something to make up for bard/cleric loss of GMW power.

[Rary]

This would not give the mages more power

If it's only dispellable by a rod, then no, it does not give anyone more power. But at the same time, the person fighting GMWs damage increase has to shell out even more money to get rid of his opponents weapon buff (and dispel checks are not sure fire). The damage I calculated was a pure L20 paladin, which would be very difficult to dispel his GMW. The damage is the biggest issue, nothing more. If you get to buy some cheap weapon and yield a +5 off it, and your opponent has to shell out 50k for his weapon, and another 36k for Gdispel rod (that only has a CHANCE of dispelling the GMW) that isn't much of a nerf in my opinion.

Good point.

What about opening up GMW and all dispels? People could get +5's but mages could dispel their weapon easily.

[Rafael]

If for all dispells then GMW should go +5 at all waepons, or dispell waepons to anything but Mord dispel and keep gmw as it is.

[Rary]

The game was meant to have dispel debuff weapons and GMW was meant to get to +5.

All dispels including mord's, greater dispel and the others.

[Casas]

but mages could dispel their weapon easily.

No, no, no. You can't give mages anymore power. It would have to be exclusive to dispel rods, and it still doesn't fix the damage issue. I will reiterate, mages cannot be given anymore power.

Why can we not just change it to AB? I don't see the problem there. DR purposes are still fine, and the weapon's damage output isn't grossly overpowered.

[Lord Mephisto]

but mages could dispel their weapon easily.

No, no, no. You can't give mages anymore power. It would have to be exclusive to dispel rods, and it still doesn't fix the damage issue. I will reiterate, mages cannot be given anymore power.

Why can we not just change it to AB? I don't see the problem there. DR purposes are still fine, and the weapon's damage output isn't grossly overpowered.

Why do you keep repeating mages don't need more power? I don't see how they are more powerful than a level 20 cleric, druid or paladin?

Bypassing damage reduction too easily is also a problem, not only the bonus damage from the enchantements on a weapon.

The solution is to scale the spell better for a PvP game and make it dispellable by rods and spells. That is balance. No more free overkill for character builds based upon GMW, tactics and planned use would have to be performed, and god forbid anyone have to think..

[Casas]

My mage has beat the snot out of EVERY build possible on our pre-epic server. Every single one of them. He even beat Kerrie's insane L36 barbarian (and he was L26 himself). Giving mages the ability to cancel weapon buffs is an outrageous power grant to an already empowered class.

GMW gives damage issues, nothing more. With our =1d4+5, =1d6+4, =>1d8+3 DR purposes are kept in proportions.

[Lord Mephisto]

My mage has beat the snot out of EVERY build possible on our pre-epic server. Every single one of them. He even beat Kerrie's insane L36 barbarian (and he was L26 himself).

When was this? Who did you play against? What characters? I don't see how this is possible.

And barbarians... Well, they are the easiest to beat as a caster. Try playing against a anti-mage monk, a corner sneaker, other mages, holy sword strength paladins, clerics, etc.

You can't possibly fight ALL these types of characters well. I would like to see it.

Greater Magic Weapon is unbalanced for a number of reasons. And it at least need to be made dispellable. It's like saying mage buffs shouldn't be able to be dispelled.

And also, it is not a very difficult change to make, and it would thus be easy to change it back or make another solution if for some strange reason it would prove not to work well.

[Rary]

Why can we not just change it to AB? I don't see the problem there. DR purposes are still fine, and the weapon's damage output isn't grossly overpowered.

The weaker classes like Bard's & Pale masters to name a few might need the extra damage. Paladins don't though.

As far as mages with more power. They can dispel it just as easy as it is for a paladin or whoever to recast GMW +5 on his scythe.

Right now GMW is AB only on self as we speak.

[Casas]

Try playing against a anti-mage monk, a corner sneaker, other mages, holy sword strength paladins, clerics, etc.

I have beat them all. Monk is pathetically easy. CS, even easier. Other mages? Gotta be joking.. HS paladins? They better be CHA or I will knock them out fast. Clerics, just keep them kded. I can defeat any build, and have defeated every build with my mage (PM/RDD/Sorc is probably one of the most difficult next to CHA pally). I've seen drunken do it too, I've seen Gee do it too. If you cannot manufacture these results, it doesn't mean mages need more power.

Bards are NOT a weaker class. I made Dib for the sole purpose of pure bard damage output. Before the bard nerfs, he was a monster. He can still shell out impressive damage as a STR build.

Mages can stock more dispels then any other class on the server. Paladins get 3 GMWs at L20.

K, I was on tup a few days ago, and it gave enchantment.. which is why I returned to this thread to get an update.

[T3hRedMage]

Indeed. When I made A Garden Gnome, a level 18 wiz, 1 ranger, 1 assassin, I was murderlizing any character/ build. Thanks GMW and Lucky Strike/ Storm Armor. As a wizard, I had 40 AC with 50% conceal, two +5 shortswords and I was taking out Mugworts level 18 Barbarian straight up melee.

[Lord Mephisto]

Try playing against a anti-mage monk, a corner sneaker, other mages, holy sword strength paladins, clerics, etc.

I have beat them all. Monk is pathetically easy. CS, even easier. Other mages? Gotta be joking.. HS paladins? They better be CHA or I will knock them out fast. Clerics, just keep them kded. I can defeat any build, and have defeated every build with my mage (PM/RDD/Sorc is probably one of the most difficult next to CHA pally). I've seen drunken do it too, I've seen Gee do it too. If you cannot manufacture these results, it doesn't mean mages need more power.

Bards are NOT a weaker class. I made Dib for the sole purpose of pure bard damage output. Before the bard nerfs, he was a monster. He can still shell out impressive damage as a STR build.

Mages can stock more dispels then any other class on the server. Paladins get 3 GMWs at L20.

K, I was on tup a few days ago, and it gave enchantment.. which is why I returned to this thread to get an update.

I still have to see it to believe it. It seems to me you are exaggerating.

But it is not any point debating it, the only thing which counts is fact. As soon as my non-computerized holyday is over, I will be looking forward to seing you proving your words real. Unfortunately, I don't have many high level characters myself, but I am sure lots of people want to prove you wrong..

[Rafael]

If you are not a good mage duelist, you wan't beat deseth..
Hmm so the gmw is only ab now? I had others saying to me they still got the dmg.