Magic balance issues

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:10 pm

Hmm... There seem to be some balance issues on the server nowadays.

At low to mid levels, magic users seem a bit overpowered. Magic users are powerful in D&D, but a PvP server should try to give the various classes at least some chance against casters, isn't that how it is supposed to be on this server? From level 7 to about 13-15, magic users are in my opinion too powerful.

But from 15+, something strange happens. Immunity and resistance items are affordable in great numbers, hit points and saving throws increase astronomically, and there are less useful combinations of items for spellcasters available. Critical hits inflict huge amount of damage without any protection, damage reduction is redundant because of +5 weapons, etc.

I think this is an item problem. The amount of useful, varied and powerful items is much less for a spellcaster than let us say a Rogue, Monk, Dragon Disciple, Paladin, Cleric, Arcane Archer, etc. Either lower the power of anti-magic equipment or add some new useful magic-user items.

Some classes should always be better against others, but not to such a degree that victory is near impossible for one type of class. And in regard to spellcasters, the power level should go slowly up from level 7 to level 20, that is what a spellcaster is about in D&D. Of course, they should not become too powerful, because that is no fun, but making them weaker at level 15+ compared to other classes than from 7-15 is in my humble opinion just wrong. And it is also important to note that spells can be used only a limited amount of times per day. If high level magic spells are powerful, so what? You simply can't use that ability all day, you have a couple of spells and that is it. Improved Knockdown, Hiding, Running, Sneak Attacks, etc. can be made all day.

This is of coure all in my opinion based upon my experiences with a few characters the last months on this server. I found level 7-13(15) too easy against all types of opposition (except running corner sneakers), and levels 15+ too hard against many types of enemies.

I am sure some of you will leap up to make clever remarks like "he can't play well, learn how to fight" or "haha, pathetic! He lost too many battles and want to change things", etc. But I assure you, it is NOT my intention to have overpowered magic users, I don't think that is fun. At all. I just think there are too many munchkinized class combinations with too easy access to everything they need to make a spellcasters life totally miserable above a certain level. That is all.

A95 · Post by **A95** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:58 pm

Mages are quite capable at fighting nearly any opponent at any level.

LittleLostThief · Post by **LittleLostThief** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:36 pm

I think it's exactly like you said. You hit higher levels and now you're fighting veterans, not n00bs. Things are actually pretty balanced now, though I'm not suggesting that nothing ever needs to be changed again. However, if it seems like you are fighting people impossible for your mage now, always ask yourself this first... who else are they fighting? If your opponent is only fighting you, you can expect to have the very best gear possible levelled against you. Your buddy fighting beside you is a mage? Still to easy, because one set of gear probably takes care of both of you. Things get tricky when you have to start spreading out gear for the barbarian, the mage, and the CSing rogue.

LittleLostThief · Post by **LittleLostThief** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:12 pm

Death logging won't fix your problems. Let's not death log anymore, yeah?

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:18 pm

LittleLostThief wrote:Death logging won't fix your problems. Let's not death log anymore, yeah?

Let us try to keep such strange accusations outside of this debate since it has nothing to do with this thread. Allright?

LittleLostThief · Post by **LittleLostThief** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:27 pm

Let's talk about it now. You just logged on Widget and Orcuscapocus.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:36 pm

Helmut, I saw you death log three times in one day. Not to mention you logging after holding the artifact for good team today for twenty minutes just because you were fighting puma, who was just.. hiding and I wasn't about to hit you because you always had a damage shield, premo and artifact on.

However, I think mages, Wizards and Sorcerers aren't not overpowered or underpowered at any level. It all depends on the player, focus, spell combinations and what class your facing. Overall, no. They are not. How do I know this? I've had four level 20 mages, two wizards, two sorcerers and they all could kill one of each class. * Besides Rage. No spot/listen *

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:30 am

T3hRedMage wrote:Helmut, I saw you death log three times in one day. Not to mention you logging after holding the artifact for good team today for twenty minutes just because you were fighting puma, who was just.. hiding and I wasn't about to hit you because you always had a damage shield, premo and artifact on.

I don't want to start a debate about my playing habits. Especially not in this thread.

But I have to say, generally I never death log because I believe that ruins fun for other players. And, it is against the rules anyway.

But I must protest against what you say. I have never death logged 3 times in one day, that must be some sort of misunderstanding. Please don't assume.

But I do quit playing on the server if I am bored. After all, I come to play for having fun. And sometimes I simply crash. It happens to everyone now and then.

And I don't think hunting hiding cowards of various types for over 20 minutes is fun. At all. Thus, I tire of it and log out. It has nothing to do with death logging, especially since I had full hit points and wasn't really in danger when I logged out.

When I quit playing, I might recheck the server to see if there are someone on who will actually fight some hours later. Isn't that normal? Also, the same reasoning apply to leaving the server if people are exploiting holes in the game mechanics or bugs. I don't play to indulge other player's munchkinism and cheats. If I don't have fun I quit playing and come back another day.

Death logging is something entirely different. Death logging is lame.

(And Thief, please keep your personal attacks to yourself, I don't want to get into some sort of flamewar with you. I have no interest in it. Your anger seem malplaced, and I am not sure why you should be so angry at all. I am here to have fun, and so should you. Please relax and join the debate in a civil manner.)

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:47 am

I noted that occurance after death logging. Holding artifact for that long and then logging without dying is just as bad.

And assume? Please. I have better things to do.

And the point of this thread is.. you're wrong on two occasions.

Post by **Rary** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:09 am

I have yet to see a smart individual at low levels be 'near impossible' to kill the mage.

I've had 40 people tell me this same thing and after I look at their gear, I tell them to come back when you try to kill the mage.

Mages are harder at high levels than low levels in my experience. Atleast at low level they don't have the protection shields.

I will never listen to anyone that tells me mages are superior if they are wearing nothing but AC gears.