Cantrips

[Lord Mephisto]

The cantrips in NWN are almost never used. Only a few of them are even remotely useful, and nearly only on early levels.

If they scaled a little, keeping them lesser than a level 1 spell but not completely useless, that could help. A few of them could also need some real ingame effects for PvP.

For example:

Light
Caster Level(s): Bard 0, Cleric 0, Druid 0, Wizard / Sorcerer 0
School: Evocation
Component(s): Verbal
Range: Touch
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: 1 Hour / Level
Additional Counter Spells: Darkness
Save: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Description: Creates a small light source above the target creature's head. The light travels with the target and is capable of illuminating a small area. It can be cast on any item the character can equip to make it glow for the spells duration like a natural source of light. The radius of the illuminated area doubles at level 10. In addition, the spell makes it easier to spot hiding creatures within the illumitated area, granting a bonus of +1 to spot checks per 6 caster levels (maximum +2 at level 12). The spell's target has a light source emmitting from and thus makes it easier to be spotted as well as spotting other creatures giving a -5 penalty to hide checks.


Ray of Frost
Caster Level(s): Wizard / Sorcerer 0
Innate Level: 0
School: Conjuration
Descriptor(s): Cold
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Short
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: Instant
Additional Counter Spells:
Save: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Description: Does 1d4 + 1 cold damage to a single target creature per 6 caster levels to a maximum of 3d4 +1 at level 18.


Acid Splash
Caster Level(s): Wizard / Sorcerer 0
Innate Level: 0
School: Conjuration
Descriptor(s): Acid
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Medium
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: Instant
Additional Counter Spells:
Save: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Description: The caster fires a small orb of acid at the target for 1d4 +1 points of acid damage per 6 caster levels to a maximum of 3d4 +1 at level 18.


Flare
Caster Level(s): Bard 0, Druid 0, Wizard / Sorcerer 0
Innate Level: 0
School: Evocation
Descriptor(s):
Component(s): Verbal
Range: Medium
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: 1 round per caster level
Additional Counter Spells:
Save: Fortitude negates, reflex partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
Description: A burst of hot light is fired from the caster to one target, making it suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls per 6 caster levels to a maximum of -3 at level 18. A successful fortitude save negates the penalty. A successful reflex save reduces the penalty to a maximum of -1 regardless of a failed fortitude save.


Electric Jolt
Caster Level(s): Wizard / Sorcerer 0
Innate Level: 0
School: Evocation
Descriptor(s): Electricity
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Medium
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: Instant
Additional Counter Spells:
Save: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Description: The caster does 1d4 +1 points of electrical damage to a target per 6 caster levels to a maximum of 3d4 +3 at level 18.


Resistance
Caster Level(s): Bard 0, Cleric 0, Druid 0, Paladin 1, Wizard / Sorcerer 0
Innate Level: 0
School: Abjuration
Descriptor(s):
Component(s): Verbal, Somatic
Range: Touch
Area of Effect / Target: Single
Duration: 1 turn per level
Additional Counter Spells:
Save: Harmless
Spell Resistance: No
Description: Grants the target creature a +1 bonus to all saving throws.

[Casas]

The cantrips are 'never' used because everyone starts at L7. Cantrips are useful for <L3 games. Even so, I still use Ray and Resistance.

I don't agree with those empowerments, it makes L1 spells look like L-2 spells. I do, however, like Light. Just -2 to hide instead of a fat -5.

[Terpeh]

Aww for a moment I thought you said Caltrops instead of Cantrips.
I dont see the point of changing them, nearly nobody except your average STR based unbuffed half-orc wizard would use them, and changing them would only increase their useage by a small ammount. But thats what I say.

[Lord Mephisto]

The cantrips are 'never' used because everyone starts at L7. Cantrips are useful for <L3 games. Even so, I still use Ray and Resistance.

I don't agree with those empowerments, it makes L1 spells look like L-2 spells. I do, however, like Light. Just -2 to hide instead of a fat -5.

Resistance as it is, is a little useful.

But I don't really think the spells can be compared with level 1 spells. They inflict much less damage. Magic missile for example does 5d4 + 5 at level 9. A changed Ray of Frost would inflict 2d4 +2 at level 12, not exactly comparable.

I don't think the spells would be too strong, not by far. If contrips should be changed at all, is another question though. Perhaps use them as more utility spells?

[Casas]

Cantrips are to mages, as unenchanted weapons are to fighters. It's all early game use, which doesn't really exist here. If L5 becomes the new beginning level, cantrips will be used more often.

Just because you made the cantrip slowly progressive, doesn't mean they aren't overpowered. Especially since none of them have reflex saves.

I would like the Light change, just -2 to hide.. it is a cantrip spell after all.

[Lord Mephisto]

Cantrips are to mages, as unenchanted weapons are to fighters. It's all early game use, which doesn't really exist here. If L5 becomes the new beginning level, cantrips will be used more often.

Just because you made the cantrip slowly progressive, doesn't mean they aren't overpowered. Especially since none of them have reflex saves.

I would like the Light change, just -2 to hide.. it is a cantrip spell after all.

Just a quick question. Do you think 3d4 +3 is overpowered at level 18?

[Rafael]

Why do even bother everyone can get ghostly visage and make the dmg cantrips useless.

[Terpeh]

Why do even bother everyone can get ghostly visage and make the dmg cantrips useless.

Good point, lots of resistances out there. And equipment, like that ammy that gives immunity to spells from arcane lvl 1 to 3, if its still there

[Casas]

Cantrips don't do over 5 damage maximized. You're increasing their dmg three fold+, and w/o a reflex save. Yes, you are overpowering the cantrips.

The amulet that gives L1-3 spell immunity is very expensive.

[Protoss119]

Like Casas said, changing the cantrips make the L1 spells look like cantrips. If you modified all the cantrips, you'd have to modify the L1 spells to make sure they're still effective, then modify the L2 spells so they don't look like L1 spells, then modify L3 spells, and so on, overpowering the mage ten-fold.

[Lord Mephisto]

Changing a cantrip to allow inflicting 1d4 +1 per 6 caster levels instead of 1d4 +1 can't under no circumstance make them more powerful than a level 1 spell.

Magic Missile inflicts 5d4 +5 at level 9 with no save. How does that compare to 2d4 + 2 at level 12 or even 3d4 +3 at level 18? And if you don't like the lack of save, why don't simply add it?

Would you really maximize a cantrip? Making it a level 3 spell? Hello? Compare that to a Fireball, an Empowered Magic Missile, or a Scintelating Sphere, etc. It isn't even near.

Why don't we state the real reason for not changing cantrips: "Casters are more than dangerous already, they don't need anything." That would be an argument I couldn't completely disagree with.

[A95]

Cantrips are not ment to do much damage.

If you really want to make them a bit better make it 1d4/1d3 + 1 per every 5 levels

[Lord Mephisto]

Hit points aren't meant to be maximized either, but yet they are.

[Rafael]

Kay Mephisto: Casters are already the strongest char type they don't need every spell made usefull.

[Xianio]

I don't mind buffing up weak spells and all but really the amount of work this takes compared to its outcome simply isn't worth it. You need to remember that every change suggested is work for rary should it be approved. Working on spells which will never be used with any seriousness simply isn't worth it.

I say leave cantrips as they are, unless you want to do all the coding for them then I suppose this discussion should continue.