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Xianio wrote:Why don't we just go back to the original song as far as what it does but just spread it out?
You gain +1 ac at 12, +2 at 15, +3 at 18, +5 at 20.
The biggest trouble with song is the ac. The saves are like +3 total the ab is nice but if you bring it back to the original it's only +3 and damage is ok as it is.
Notice how damge and AB are +3. The skills and HP will be the same in the updated song, but at level 20, you gain +3 AC instead of +5. It'll give pure bards a ' better ' song, and weaken Bard/ Paladins, Bard/ PM's, Bard/ Rogues Bard/ Class here.
Trouble with not nerfing song for multiclass bards is that most of the strong bard builds require 15+ levels, which give a decent song and curse.
In normal D&D, bards are not allowed to have more than one song going at a time unless they take special feats or something. Perhaps it could be made that multiclass bards couldn't take curse song at all? Also, I would like to see the bard song buffs and the curse song maladictions drop when the bard dies.
Xianio wrote:
If you cap saves for pally at max +1 per level from charisma bonus that removes that builds most insane characteristics (really high ac and really great saves for nearly no penalty).
Off-topic: This would be a good idea. Extreme saving throw bonuses should be something special for pure Paladins or at least Paladins with many class levels. Not just one level.
If you cap saves for pally at max +1 per level from charisma bonus that removes that builds most insane characteristics (really high ac and really great saves for nearly no penalty).
Psst I know Mephistos secret he hates everything that is a threat to mages ^.^ Oh and Like gees idea even thos it will screw all my multi bards but hey
If lowering song from +5 AC to +3 AC, isn't that the same as keeping them from using tower shields?
But anyways there song before wasn't a problem, it could use a bit of more progressive increases. Cause by default it sometimes jumped to +2, then +4 and so on.
You could always make curse song half power on multiclasses? Or bard song?
Halfing the power of course would do it 2, or simply restore NWN defalu song fo multiclasses it's +2 ab then no aura 10 rounds etc. I think TRm suggested making song ac +3 because you guys are assuming that a tower shield and the +5 song is too much even without conceal.
Rary wrote:If lowering song from +5 AC to +3 AC, isn't that the same as keeping them from using tower shields?
Yes, it is exactly the same for pure bards as giving them their small shield back. However, it will give a further nerf to multiclass bard and give a ' boost ' to pure bards in comparison through song.
I repeat-- I'm giving a reason for people to stay pure bard. I'm not trying to make them stronger.
Yes we know, but you nerfed bard song for pure bards. You nerfed it good too. The song, our way, is much more powerful. Why would a pure bard rather take your song, when ours is more powerful? Seems like more incentive to stay with our bard song.
For such a lonely soul, you're having such a nice time.
If you want to nerf multi bards, then make multibards song use their perform/2. That would lower their song/curse level. Or just make curse song unavailable to multis. This would not degrade bards in general but also make pure bards more superior.
Also making song more progressive than it is now but not really changing its power is good too.
Rafael wrote:Psst I know Mephistos secret he hates everything that is a threat to mages ^.^ Oh and Like gees idea even thos it will screw all my multi bards but hey
Nonono. I only hate Monks, Paladins, Sneaking Archers and enemy Mages...
Casas wrote:Yes we know, but you nerfed bard song for pure bards. You nerfed it good too. The song, our way, is much more powerful. Why would a pure bard rather take your song, when ours is more powerful? Seems like more incentive to stay with our bard song.
Yours is - MORE - powerful. Indeed. It is - MORE - powerful for multiclassed bards too. My nerf will balance the power between multiclass bards and the aspect of pure bards by lowering their AC, and lowering some of the well-rounded-ness of multiclass bards.
Your song may offer more to everyone now, but it is by no means an incentive to stay pure.
Oh and Like gees idea even thos it will screw all my multi bards but hey 
