Bard Proposal

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:33 am

I think I have finally figured it out. I didn't want to post on page 5... screw that. Starting fresh here.

Multiclass bards will recieve all current penalties AND this one.

Bard song will not give all complimenting abilities. It will be chosen in base on which skill it will compliment; very similiar to ranger companion. A player will be able to chose either AC, AB, Damage, Saves or Skills. Same with curse song. +4 will be max for multiclassed bards, but that's -4 AB, Damage, Saves and Skills at the same time, if you want to keep your precious AC.

Pure Bards will recieve the ability to wear all shields and keep their aura. However, their song is capped upon +2 to everything until level 20, where it becomes +3 flat with 30 perform. ( 23 base + 3 charisma mod = a few skill points need to come from somewhere else. )

So this for pure bards is taking 2 AC away from the current shield replacement, making it essentially the small sheild nerf before.. yet it doesn't look ridiculous and it gives pure bards their spell failure back and some reason to stay pure.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:57 am

Multiclass bards take a pretty big hit.

30 perform? That's quite a boost, considering it used to be 50. So bard song will not be progressive anymore? +1 to everything till... L14, then +2 till L19, then +3? I think they are better off now. You rmove 2 AC from song, and give it to them in the form of a Tower Shield. That decreases their party buffing ability and makes them a more solo class.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:29 am

And whats wrong with them beeing a more solo class? This ain't RP

and the problem with small shields is they look so damn silly >.<

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:41 am

It doesn't hurt multiclass bards that much. They will still be very powerful. If your multiclass bard is an AC build, then you'll pick AC and AB for your curse song.

Pure bards will still be a party buffer in contrast to multiclass bards, because their song lifts everything. Yes, it be constant until level 11, where it raises +2 everything until level 20. 30 perform, because 50 is just too much for... +3 things. Also, a last increase at level 20 will help people from going 1 PM or 1 Pally, RDD, Fighter, whatever.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:43 am

D&D has them designed for party class in combat. Their song, in a few editions, prohibits them from action, while they sing for their team.

What's wrong with the silly shields? I choose the small shields over tower on my PM, cause they look cute. Their appearance is ascetics. If you don't like the look of the small shield, can unlock +1 tower shield for them, it's the same AC as the small ones.

Post by **Rary** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:49 am

I don't like bards going to a straight melee and/or solo class. Server isn't RP anymore? well maybe it should be.... Bard's are based on their song, it should be kept that way.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:49 am

Incase it's confusing by now, multiclass bards will keep the current amplifactions of the current song. Meaning, if they can reach level 19 bard and then multiclass, they will no longer get a +2 to everything, they will get a +4 or 5 to one thing.

So essentially, pure bards get a +3 to everything at level 20, keep their aura and shields, with having to buy the minstral gloves if they want to get their final +1.

This proposal is almost weakening pure bards from the way they are now, but my motive all a long hasn't been beefing them up, it's been giving an incentive to stay pure to the class. I think this is a good way.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:56 am

Well L13 bardic song is much more powerful and only costs 10k for someone who maxes perform and has a decent CHA modifier. (5k for two +10 items if you don't have a 7 mod 9k for +5 shoes).

Giving all team mates +10 to skills +4 AB +4 dmg +5 AC +saves and +30 hp is pretty good.. Dunno why anyone would want to stay pure for a single +1 increment to their current +2 song.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:07 am

+2 is only affecting ones AC, AB and Saves. I imagined it staying the way it is on skill points and HP.

The jest was making a multiclass bard, like one with divine shield and high saves weaker. If they chose AC, and AB for your curse. Making their AC ... +8, then they are tauntable, because their concentration doesn't rise with saves. So on, so on. It always keeps a backdoor in the fortress.

-Edit- They'll want to stay pure so they don't ' LOSE ' all the other things their song gives +2 on.

Post by **Rary** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:08 am

We have 22 classes, only one sings and buffs there team. If we lose that class, we lost their uniqueness and bards join the rest of the Melee caster classes similar to clerics/paladins.

That would be like making an arcane archer use longswords instead of arrows because we can make them use a sword much better...

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:11 am

I'm trying to keep it so a party will want a pure bard on their team more than a multiclass bard, and people will be all ' zomg my sogn is bttr than theres lol '

Post by **Rary** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:13 am

Just give lvl 20 bard's song alittle more to help a pure class.

I don't mind changing classes, but bards have their special uniqueness. I'd like to see another class be changed where there is plenty of them. Maybe make PM's more unique or dwarven defenders. PM's being undead. *grins evilly*

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:16 am

+3 to AC, AB, Damage, Saves, +24 to HP, +10 to all skills at once for staying pure over.

Not staying pure:

Please select the following:

AC
AB
Saves
Skills
Damage

Please Select the following for Curse Song:

AC
AB
Saves
Skills
Damage

Multiclass bards are basically missing on all that other stuff, whilst a pure bard gets all of it.

I think that is giving the level 20 bard song a little more to help the class and stay pure, without focusing them on soloing. Parties will like a pure bard better in the end and it'll be easier to play one, because it will essentially have more to offer from their song.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:58 pm

It will offer more from song? Elaborate. It gives something to all skills, attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, AC and HP. What more could it offer?

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:42 pm

Why don't we just go back to the original song as far as what it does but just spread it out?

You gain +1 ac at 12, +2 at 15, +3 at 18, +5 at 20.

The biggest trouble with song is the ac. The saves are like +3 total the ab is nice but if you bring it back to the original it's only +3 and damage is ok as it is.

If you spread it out you weaken multiclasses and keep the bard pretty unique and powerful, it just takes longer to get the same amount of power...also weakens that Bard/Pally build which is so insane. If you cap saves for pally at max +1 per level from charisma bonus that removes that builds most insane characteristics (really high ac and really great saves for nearly no penalty).