Scythes?

[Drunken]

I had Drunken Psycho crit for 110 with a quarterstaff.

[T3hRedMage]

Okay people... scythes are NOT overpowered. Do you guys forget you have to use a FEAT to get a 2d4 weapon? It has x4 crits for roleplaying reasons. You get the blade behind someone and you can rip them in half. That's pretty critical.

A scythe weapon master has what I like to call the dependable 160. Which means, a ki-critical is usually around 155-165. Powerful? Yes, but one has to remember that most WM have low saves and low HP.

Halbards don't need buffing. If halbards need buffing, then so do greataxes. Make sense? If halbards get any kind of extension buffs, they should get the old script back in where the weilder doesn't get affected by damage shields.

Let's talk more about making good scythes than trying to say they're too powerful already. They are not.

[Casas]

There's 2d6 Gaxes, there aren't any 2d6 hally's.

I showed that the weapon damage itself is not overpowered.. it's min is higher than hally, but it's max is lower then hally. Seems fine.

[Lord Mephisto]

There's 2d6 Gaxes, there aren't any 2d6 hally's.

I showed that the weapon damage itself is not overpowered.. it's min is higher than hally, but it's max is lower then hally. Seems fine.

Your calculations are correct. Except from one detail, critical misses on a the roll of a natural 1. It doesn't really matter.

And if I may add a little to what you just said.

"Weapon damage itself is not overpowered..." you say.

I agree, as long as you only take into consideration the weapon base dice rolls, critical range and critical multiplier.

But there is more to this story. Strength bonuses, weapon feats, elemental damage, special abilities, etc. AND the weapon master. Taken to the extreme (as always happen on PvP servers), scythes get insane critical hit damage.

On 3 of the possible outcomes of the d20, a scythe scores a critical hit for ordinary characters with a Keen scythe and the Improved Critical feat That is 15 % of all possible outcomes! What does a character with 36 strength inflict with a +3 scythe on a critical hit with Weapon Specialzation? The answer is 2d4 + 13 + (0,5 *13) + 2 +3 = 104-128

Compared to a halberd user (x2):

1d10 + 13 + (13*0,5) + 2 + 3 = 75-102

Compared to a greatsword user (x2):
2d6 + 13 + (13*0,5) + 2 + 3 = 52-72

Compared to a longsword user (x2):
1d8 + 13 + 2 + 3 = 38-52

Of course, there are other considerations than just critical hits like the critical range, using shields, mean damage average, etc.

But often, it is a critical hit which settles the fight. Why? Simply because the critical hit damage is a very large part of total hit points, while an ordinary hit is not, and characters have limited amounts of hit points per death. If a character had 10 000 hit points, there would be lesser differances between weapons and mean averages had been more important. But combat is often short, giving an advantage to those who can score a big hit.

If you want to get really nasty, throw in smites, extra weapon damage of various sorts, spells, weapon master with increased critical range and critical multiplier, rage, ki damage, etc.

It is perfectly possible to create a character on a level 20 server who can score critical hits on rolls from 16-20 and inflict 300-400 damage.

So, what do I want to say with this?

I guess I am trying to say that Scythes are using game mechanics which explode in a PvP game for NWN.

We can't fix the stacking rules of critical ranges and damage, but we can take away the most extreme weapons. And on top of them all, the scythe rules as an extreme weapon. The game mechanics make it rather unreliable, but also lethal.

But it is not overpowered like certain other abilities/combinations in this game. It is strange, surprising and somewhat broken. But what you have to sacrifice for getting this chaotic deathringing ability makes it balanced. As long as the damage bonuses are kept in line.

[T3hRedMage]

If you want to get really nasty, throw in smites, extra weapon damage of various sorts, spells, weapon master with increased critical range and critical multiplier, rage, ki damage, etc.

It is perfectly possible to create a character on a level 20 server who can score critical hits on rolls from 16-20 and inflict 300-400 damage.

So, what do I want to say with this?

I guess I am trying to say that Scythes are using game mechanics which explode in a PvP game for NWN.

Screw PvP and NWN. You're crazy. Have you seen a scythe come anywhere near 300 or 400 damage on a crit on OUR server? No. You haven't. The highest I've ever seen was 280, and that was with an unnerfed level 17 charisma cleric.

Weapon master, whine, weapon, whine, ki crit, whine. Make a scythe WM and see if you can get over 200 easily with a scythe crit. Even if you do.. tell us if that character is worth a flip afterwards.

Rary, it says in the journal that scythes and halbards got boosted up, but I didn't see any new additions to either catagory, just some upped prices.

[Rary]

Rary, it says in the journal that scythes and halbards got boosted up, but I didn't see any new additions to either catagory, just some upped prices.

Ya, that entry came prematurely. Only some were updated. The rest will come on next update. And prices aren't normally added, they 'upped prices' just might be better weapons now.

[Casas]

The critical on a one is the easiest to compute.. all you have to do after that is multiple it by the maximum the weapon can roll.

STR was left out since both are 2h. All variables that are the same can be eliminated for simplicity.

The WM is a class that requires ridiculous feats, it is the best class for increasing melee damage, but has pretty pathetic saves. My scythe WM does 150 ki crits.. he's one of the better builds. He could be improved a little upon, but not much.

But if you wanna talk about weapon imbalance.. look at whips! d2x2? Pft.. should edit the weapon to d4x2 19-20.. be much more useful.

[Rary]

Scythes and halberds are up to par with all the other weapons now.