A Few Spell Changes

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Lord Mephisto
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Post by Lord Mephisto »

Casas wrote:Clerics have the same BAB as wizads. They are meant to be casters on this server - healers or strikers.

I'm for the d6 nerf without evasion, or remain d8 damage with evasion. The duration of bbs is more a problem then an aid - how many enemies run over bbs after it's been cast? Now compare that to how many allies run over it.
Clerics have the same Base Attack Bonus as rogues, somewhere in between Mages and Fighters.

A Cleric is one of the most powerful classes in D&D. It can heal, it can fight, it has powerful defensive spells, and to a certain degree use offensive spells to a greater degree than even arcane casters. It is known to be overpowered.

For a PvP server when things are meant to be be somewhat balanced and thus changed, the Cleric require many tweaks. One of them should be to make sure Clerics aren't a better version of arcane spellcasters. And thus they shouldn't have spells inflicting greater damage with greater reliability than arcane spellcasters.

And Blade Barrier would be overpowered even if it was a level 9 sorcerer/wizard spell. :shock:
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Casas
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Post by Casas »

Once again, our sever is different from default nwn. Please play the class before you go off on tangents. Clerics have the same BAB as wizards on our server. You could of gathered that from our post to restore cleric BAB? Anyway..

One or the other, the spell is one of the most popular tk spells, leaving clerics cowed. d4 nerf or evasion please, not both.
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Lord Mephisto
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Post by Lord Mephisto »

Hmm. I didn't notice there was a change in BAB for clerics. How did you manage to do that without a 2da-change on the client? Is it just listed incorrectly for the client but still working as intended ingame?

Anyway, it doesn't change much really.

They can still fight pretty well, have loads of hit points, good saves, good spells, etc. They are still extremely powerful.
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Rafael
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Post by Rafael »

A Spell Mantle using Mage usually beats them however they are 50 ac 300 hp selfhealing throwing out Implosion and Bb's tanks.
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Rary
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Post by Rary »

Some 2da changes work on server side only. Thats how I get resting at 1 second and XP is set to 0.

The new dialog.tlk does mention of the correct BAB for clerics.
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T3hRedMage
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Post by T3hRedMage »

So, keeping things current and updated list should be posted atleast on every page so we don't babble on and on about other things.

Spells that need changing-

Cloud Kill- Page 1
Acid Fog- Page 1
Incendiary Cloud- Page 1
Blade Barrier- Page 2
Ball of Lightning- New Thread
Stinking Cloud- Needs something..
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Casas
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Post by Casas »

Hamper movement needs a fixin' too. Currently does permanent speed decrease once you enter it. Should be speed decrease while you reside within it. Or a small duration after you've left.. one or two rounds.
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Lord Mephisto
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Post by Lord Mephisto »

While I am at it...

Destruciton is an overpowered cleric spell.

It is a level 7 spell. Compare it with a similar Sorcerer/Wizard spell, Finger of Death.

Finger of Death kills (if not immune to death magic) on a failed fortitude saving throw, and inflicts a little damage on a successful save. 3d6 +1 per caster level which at level 13 is 3d6 +13 damage and 3d6 +20 at level 20.

Destruction is the same level and functions most in the same way. But, it inflicts 10d6 damage instead at level 13 and level 20.

10d6 averages to 35 with a minimum of 10 and maximum of 60. 3d6 +13 averages to 23,5 at level 13 and 30,5 at level 20. Maximum damage for the the first and last spells respectively are 60 vs. 31 at level 13, and 60 vs. 41 at level 20.

So, at level 13, the cleric version of "Finger of Death" inflicts about 50 % more damage than it's arcane counterpart at level 13. The difference is slowly reduced to about 15 % more at level 20.

Thus, Descrution is overpowered compared to it's arcane counterpart in an significant manner in early levels. Better scaling of the spell would solve the problem. Making it inflict 1d6 damage per 2 caster levels on a successful fortitude save would result in average damage of 21 at level 13 and 35 at level 20. More fair.
Casas wrote:Hamper movement needs a fixin' too. Currently does permanent speed decrease once you enter it. Should be speed decrease while you reside within it. Or a small duration after you've left.. one or two rounds.
Sounds needed and reasonable indeed.
T3hRedMage wrote: Cloud Kill- Page 1
Making it a level 5 death spell would simply be too much. Circle of Death at level 6 could be like a small-radius full PvP Wail of the Banshee with a -4 to the save or something like that. But a level 5 fog death spell would be too much. It would be spammed to no end.

Instead, what it does for creatures of level 7 and higher could be tweaked to be in line for a PvP server. Every round a creature is in the cloud, it should succeed on a fortitude save or take 1d4 Constitution damage and be affected by a poisonous vapour inflicting 2d6 poison (vile) damage. A successful save should negate the Constitution damage and inflict 2d6 poison (vile) damage instead. Those immune to poison would not be affected by this spell.

Still, the area of effect is rather small. And thus, either the movement speed or the area should be tweaked. There are numerous ways of reducing the movement speed of many types of characters, and I therefore suggest increasing the radius a little instead of going for the overkill and adding yet another movement speed decrease spell.
T3hRedMage wrote: Acid Fog- Page 1
This spell is currently weak for it's level. To make it interesting and not just another standard acid damage spell, make the conjured acid fog not allow for Spell Resistance. Also, increase the duration and radius slightly. Note there is no save for the acid damage, only the movement speed decrease.

With a movement speed decrease combined with acid damage without a save, this could actually be a dangerous spell if used right. Especially if stacked with other spells which hamper movement.
T3hRedMage wrote: Incendiary Cloud- Page 1
Increase the radius and increase the damage dealt per round to 15d6 on impact and then 8d6 (perhaps 5d6?) per round. It is a level 8 spell and should be able to do some damage. Also it should add another effect, causing fire vulnerability. Those who fail an additional fortitude saving throw get their saving throws against fire reduced with -2 and their fire damage immunity reduced by 10 %. Only as long as they are inside the cloud and 1d2 rounds after they leave it. And the effects have to be non-comulative. Or something like that.
T3hRedMage wrote: Stinking Cloud- Needs something..
Stinking Cload is a little weak because it is very quick to leave the cloud. Make it so creatures are dazed for 1d4 +1 rounds after they leave the cloud instead of a flat 1 round. Or make the radius a little bigger and the dazed effect last for 1d3 +1 rounds after you leave the cloud. Or something like that.
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T3hRedMage
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Post by T3hRedMage »

Bigger is not better.

You're making all the improvements more complicated than they need be.

10 acid resistance can stop cloud kill and acid fog ( after the first damage ) currently.

Cloud spells are only good if you can stun or get your opponent to stay still. Increasing radius would make sense, but that only calls for extreme team killing, aggrivation and just irration in general with the server.

I think the problem with stinking cloud is that it's completley obsolete compared to web and cloud of bewilderment. It's a fortitude save and one can still move when in the cloud if they fail the save.
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Rary
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Post by Rary »

Yes, that hamper movement spell, whats its true name? Been needing to fix that one.

Also in regards to destruction, what are the DC's to the 2 spells, this makes a difference too.
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Casas
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Post by Casas »

Destruction used to be no damage on save, 10d6 on fail. You changed it back to default because it was worthless that way.

Vine Mine = hamper movement.
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Rary
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Post by Rary »

Casas wrote:Destruction used to be no damage on save, 10d6 on fail. You changed it back to default because it was worthless that way.
Ya, Destruction should be a save or death spell, thats why I made it default. But from above Lord was talking about its power to finger of death, but didn't know if the DC's are normally different. Maybe destruction has a lower DC so saving it should entitle a higher damage.
Casas wrote:Vine Mine = hamper movement.
Ok, I'll patch that up.
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Lord Mephisto
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Post by Lord Mephisto »

Rary wrote: Also in regards to destruction, what are the DC's to the 2 spells, this makes a difference too.
The spells are the same level, and since spell DC is calculated identically for Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric, the save DC is also identical.

Druids can actually use this spell with an ever higher save (for 2 reasons), but then again it is a level 8 Druid spell, not level 7 as it is for Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer.
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Casas
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Post by Casas »

Destruction is the highest level necro spell for clerics though (energy drain is useless). You'll see more mages with necro focus then clerics for this reason, mages need necro focus for their multitude of necro spells.

Clerics have: slay, destruction, energy drain (useless), poison (useless), bestow curse (useless), and contagion (useless). (The inflict wounds too) Only effective spell there is destruction.

Could change destruction to damage spell, with no death effect.
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T3hRedMage
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Post by T3hRedMage »

The DC is lower too. No wisdom items to max their mod like wizards.
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