Pure Fighters

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:54 am

They need help. Serious, help.

Me and Gee were thinkin' give them a permanent bonus to their Weapon Specialization for every 4 levels (after the 4th level to avoid giving WM more power) give them +1 dmg with it and for every 5 levels give them +1 AB with it. So at L20 a fighter would have +4 dmg and +4 AB extra. Only with their specialized weapons though. Just make sure not to give those benefits to low level fighters.. I don't wanna see WMs with more power cause of 5L of fighter. :-/

Also, the pure fighter haste boots suck.. badly. They need some improvements. L20 fighter isn't worth those boots, amulet haste is much more superior to them.

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:39 pm

i didnt eve nknwo the serve rhad haste boots.

or heers an idea. give them 3 special items

one is a normal stance, which is normal.
another activates a defensive stance, similar to DD stance, but not as powerful
another is a rage stanc, similar to barbarian rage, but some penalties.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:54 pm

I like the specialization thing, that's not to shabby. Could give pure fighters more saves as well, +1 every 5 levels of fighter past the 5th perhaps? Up the ab, damage and saves, but not as much as CoT. That would give them about ranger damage, ab boost of a barbarian but lacking from either in certain other areas. I like it.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:29 pm

Xianio wrote:I like the specialization thing, that's not to shabby. Could give pure fighters more saves as well, +1 every 5 levels of fighter past the 5th perhaps? Up the ab, damage and saves, but not as much as CoT. That would give them about ranger damage, ab boost of a barbarian but lacking from either in certain other areas. I like it.

Saves are already too high. At least in the level 13+ range. Too many already only fail at a natural 1 and have immunities as well as high resistances.

Fighters should be the masters of weapons and armor. Granting pure fighters a bonus in either AC and/or BAB, and/or adding slightly better weapons/armor available for fighters would be a better solution.

Giving them free access to all combat moves like Knockdown, Disarm and Called Shot could also help. For a pure fighter, it would make sense.

What Casas suggested in regard of AB and Damage also sounds fair and balanced.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:54 pm

L20 Fighter saves are 12F/6R/6W.

Giving them free access to all combat moves

What do you mean? Their bonus feat has those in it's list.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:20 pm

We're talking about Pure fighters here. Saves for those guys are low (as Casas has shown) and gear can only give around +10 before you reach HIGH into the 20 range meaning that 22,16,16 is what they'll have with max'd gear. THat isn't bad at all. Saves could use an increase on fighters.

- And who has these amazing saves? Whenever I play my mage (admittedly rarely) I can almost always find at least 1 low save on an opponent to exploit.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:38 pm

Those are actually the saves for all classes fort based only (barb, wm, ranger, pally, cot, bg etcetera). Cleric and druid are on that list but with +6 to W. Bard is the R/W at 12. Monk has all three at 12.

I'm not really concerned with their saves mainly because.. how's a fighter EVER going to stand up against a caster? You also forgot stat bonuses Gnarr.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:48 pm

I didn't so much forget as failed to mention them as builds are all different...that and it kinda strengthens my point hehe.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:55 pm

Xianio wrote:We're talking about Pure fighters here. Saves for those guys are low (as Casas has shown) and gear can only give around +10 before you reach HIGH into the 20 range meaning that 22,16,16 is what they'll have with max'd gear. THat isn't bad at all. Saves could use an increase on fighters.

- And who has these amazing saves? Whenever I play my mage (admittedly rarely) I can almost always find at least 1 low save on an opponent to exploit.

One type of character isn't supposed to get it all. That goes for fighters too.

But they should excel in the thing they are supposed to do best. They are the most skilled melee warriors. So many other characters do better than pure fighters in melee combat, and this is not fair. Fighters should be a true manace in pure melee. They should have a lot of combat options and special manuevers as well as simple brutish power measured in attack bonuses, damage and AC.

Characters with high enough saves to never fail on other rolls than a natural 1 are either using known multiclass exploits, building a character around gaining great saves and thus not excel in all other aspects, or be at their full power with all sorts of spell and item enchantements of high power in regard to increasing saves. Some characters are known to be able to do this more easily than others, and some of these are built around ideas which are of dubious nature. That does not imply the need of raising saves, there is a perfect reason for spells being able to be cast a limited amount of times per day. Balance is not the same as never failing saves.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:40 pm

Weapon spec was my idea * Walks away *

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:18 am

Good contribution, nothing more to add?

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:08 am

1 DR per 10 fighter levels?

Post by **Rary** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:19 pm

Pure fighter boots were changed to just haste boots for 15k gold. No penalties anymore.

If I add the BAB/damage to fighters, I'll remove the the boots.

Also I can change base saves for all classes per level in the 2da file without needing a hak already if saves need changed. I think saves now are decent that I've seen so far.

I'd like for fighters and barbarians not be the same either.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:01 pm

Remove the boots, please. Those boots don't carry any weight in a fight.. you lose the ability to wear CON/AC shoes with them.

Add +AB and +dmg to fighters SPECIALIZED weapons. L4 feat, and have it be progressive please, so we can start seeing L10+ fighter multiclasses. Thanks.

Post by **Rary** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:43 am

Isn't adding damage to a specialized weapon basically a weaponmaster?

Also the boots don't carry weight?

I'll take the loss of 5 con for the same in AC and 10 DR, plus a belt slot. Even better I'll take haste and 5 DR + immunity to sneaks and crits.