World War 2

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:25 pm

So is Islam - most people think it's hateful and a warmongers religion. Common perception doesn't equate to rightness or wrongness.. People used to have a common perception that the earth was flat. Nazism isn't a bad form of gov. It can be abused, just like other forms of govs, and in the case of WWII, it was - to the extreme.

Terpeh · Post by **Terpeh** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:35 am

Casas wrote:Nazism isn't a bad form of gov. It can be abused, just like other forms of govs

Thank you Casas.
And Xianio, with all due respect, this is a GENERAL Forum: "Everything that doesn't belong in the other forums should go here." So things here aren't meant to have anything to do with NWN.

Rafael: Yes I know those points, Hitler wanted the pure race of humans to dominate and to exterminated the lesser human that is the Jew, according to him. And to a certain extent I wish he won (Don't to kill the Jews but the other nations because today nations are becoming even more corrupted than the Reich all thanks to greed).

And yes I agree that there were does who shared his mad vision, but did you read what I said before? There are were good Nazis and there still are today - the Pope!

And why should the Germans rebel against their supperiors? So that they would face the Allied dogs and Hitler at the same time? America and Russia hated the Germans to death including the innocent ones because of one madman they were given a bad name.

Do you think they wanted to suffer the same fate as the Jews? They were petrified to rebel because they didn't want to suffer that same fate.

And looking from a human's perspective, do you think that amongst all that chaos and pandemonium they had the smallest guts to rise against their own country? They needed a leader to lead the rebelion and they didn't have one. Not to mention that if they rebelled, Hitler would eliminate half of the German civilian population (their famalies) for turning against him. And what would they do then? Join the Allies?

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:49 am

Join the Allies?

If they were good, they'd do it, and hitler couldn't exterminate his soldiers because noone would do it since they would rebel. Keep one thing in mind it was Germany who started the war, not the allies they were only defending themself.

There are were good Nazis and there still are today - the Pope!

You use plural and give only 1 exeption, leaving out that the Pope wasn't always the pope.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:15 am

Don't get me wrong Torm, I don't like Nazism. All the people that propagate it now are all hateful people. It's last rally was to deny the existence of Israel. It was held in Tehran and all the hateful groups from around the world showed up.

A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

if they rebelled

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is in the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Evil can only exist when good people refuse to act. The one's that did act didn't have enough help to end it till Normandy. The one's that didn't act are just as guilty as the perpetrators.

Hitler was a fool, but eliminate half his own population would of lost the war, even he could see that.

Terpeh · Post by **Terpeh** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:39 am

Rafael wrote:You use plural and give only 1 exeption, leaving out that the Pope wasn't always the pope.

There were a couple more who were interviewd on the Discovery Channel on a documentary that I saw.

Hitler was a madman, I say he would have killed half the population if need be. Maybe if he was more into his senses, I'd say torture the ones who didn't show his loyaltyinstead of killing them.

And no, Allies didn't accept German traitors. Some years ago I had spoken to a World War 2 Allied Veteran from Australia who is a freind of mine. He told me about the war, his battles he had, defending Holland, when they closed the German army in France after D-Day, how he came to Malta by a ship that I forgot the name. Anyways he told me that while stationed in Caen (some city in France, donno if that's the name), his fellow soldiers (including himself I recon) despited the Germans, and one brightful day, a German party came up to the city carrying a white flag (One was shot before they brought the flag out cause they thought they were a raiding party lol). The party was taken to some superior he mentioned and he didn't know what happened then cause he was sent back to his post. Then he told me that he heard shouts from where the Germans were taken and he found them being beaten by Allied soldiers. And eventually they were lined up and shot. Even this guy (The Veteren who told me this) said that he pittied the Germans.

Why join the Allies? Cause of that gentlemen.

Edit: Wrote Grance instead of France

AntiChristMofo · Post by **AntiChristMofo** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:48 pm

can i just piont out the fact if anyone hasnt noticed that Casas is actualy posting in the general discussion...

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:24 pm

What I can't understand Torm is why it is you believe in Nazism. You state things like "the allies were evil too" but if it's Nazism as a form of government you support then Allies and Germany Nazis' of the WW2 time should have no bearing on your views on Nazism. The reason why I find it difficult to believe you either A) Don't believe in Hitler's Nazism or B) Don't really know what you're talking about, is because if you're trying to fight an argument about political beliefs by defending Nazi Germany of the WW2 time.

Were there good German's during WW2? Of course, you'd be stupid to believe otherwise. Obviously some had to fight or lose there families but that hardly makes them "good Nazi's". That makes them "good Germans" and only Nazi's if they believe in that form of Facism but not the way Hitler implemented it.

You should clarify yourself Torm because there arguments you're fighting make you sound as if you're defending Nazi germany and saying that it wasn't a place of hatred towards those groups which were presecuted. If you're a facist with such an extreme view as Nazism's style of governing, personally I think you're a fool but that's just on a political spectrum, then that's one thing but if you're trying to defend Nazi Germany as a "not so bad place" then you need to reread your history texts and your propoganda material along with the actual brainwashing techniques used by the SS to conform and enrage there troops towards violence against Jews, black people, gypsies, homosexuals and anyone who might look like someone who wasn't part of this "uber race".

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:14 pm

After all the Axis of evil had done, there was very little that could come their way in the spectrum of Karma that would be 'unjust.' They could of all been disemboweled and perhaps then, they would of had justice repaid. You could easily argue, humans don't have the right to Capitol Punishment.. and I'll agree wth you, but read Anne Frank - perhaps you'll make a counter-judgment.

Hitler wasn't a Nazi. If you compare Nazism to Hitlerism..? it's not the same. He was more Totalitarian dictator with the Gestapo as his right arm terror-troopers.

Personally.. I like fascism. It's a great form of gov, just have to find people jobs they LIKE to do... or at the least, best at.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sat May 12, 2007 1:15 am

I like how Torm stated:

Torm wrote: Rafael: Yes I know those points, Hitler wanted the pure race of humans to dominate and to exterminated the lesser human that is the Jew, according to him. And to a certain extent I wish he won (Don't to kill the Jews but the other nations because today nations are becoming even more corrupted than the Reich all thanks to greed).

It takes a corrupted government, system and political leader to take another corrupted nation down, eh? Fight fire with fire, it's the human intiative. Bismarck was the genius of Germany, not Hitler. Hitler was a fool, who was placed in a throne by Bismarck ideals. Hitler just took too much word from Friedrich Nietzsche.

The only honorable thing the German military did during any war was sink their boats so the British couldn't take them.

Terpeh · Post by **Terpeh** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:52 am

Xianio what I'm trying to say, cause now you confused me, thats yes I believe that there were good Germans at the time. I'm not talking about the governemnt, even tho Fascism is more "rightous" than Democracy today. Cause Democracy is damn corrupted.

Quote: if you're trying to defend Nazi Germany as a "not so bad place"
I'm talking about that but I'm defending those German soldiers who had to do what they were told or they (And possibly their families) would die or improsened. And yet people continue to accuse these people as evil brainswashed yahoos. And yet everyone says that those people didn't exist cause, with all due respect, you are brainwased yourself. Hitler brainwashed you too, into believing that all Germans were evil. He brainswashed both sides and the effects are still seen today.

And I read Anne Frank but forgot most of it.

Also, when I say "I Support Nazis", I'm not refering to Hitler, he was an ugly, horrible, madman. He didn't know how to win a war to start with, example: Why fight America and Russia when you can make them fight each other?
I support those innocent soldiers who were given a bad name cause of some guy with a vision to make a pure race.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:26 am

You see Torm the problem with what you've stated is that it isn't what you meant. You meant that not everyone during Hilter's Germany was an evil person, soldier or otherwise, and people DO agree with that statement. It's what you said, the actual words themselves, which people are finding offensive or crazy.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:19 am

Actually, what he said was only the Officers and Hitler himself were evil.

Torm, Mussolini fascist Italy was MUCH better than Nazism. Nazism does have that terrible clause of scapegoating all problems onto one thing.

Terpeh · Post by **Terpeh** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:21 am

Mussolini was a bloody coward, he was scared when Hitler turned his face on Italy, so they joined him. Another mistake Hitler made: Don't Ally with Italy. And besides, Italy barely did anything in the war except try to destroy Malta but failed, but then the Germans arrived and made a huge mess of here. And we have the intact remains of a German bomb that fell at my school on display at school, and a still active one in a church, so touch it and BOOM.

And define "MUCH better than Nazism" pls cause I didn't get it.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:51 am

Nazism implies you blame all your problems (scapegoating) upon one group of people or one problem rather then a number of different problems which make up the real cause as that would be difficult to fix.

The big problem with Nazism is that instead of taking responsibility for problems (born into or simply created by yourself) they are given to people who have nothing to do with the problem as a whole.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:15 am

Italy barely did anything in the war except try to destroy Malta but failed

Once again, you have a very poor grasp of history.

Nazism is a branch of Fascism only it has the lovely clause, belief in the superiority of an Aryan master race. The belief gave them the right to blame whatever ethnicity they could find for THEIR own problems - Scapegoats.

If you want to believe in a flawed, and hateful 'religion' fine. Do it, but it's outlawed in Germany, and most everywhere else there's an intelligent mind to think. Neo-Nazi's exist because their ideals are different from Nazism.