Holy Sword

Post by **Rary** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:00 am

Holy sword....

Keep it the same

or

Make it: +5 enchantment, 1d6 or similar divine damage bonus, 15-18 SR (No onhit dispel)

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:55 am

Uhh.. keep it the same. Btw this ain't a poll. 20 SR is useless (natural 1's and 20's aren't in that part of the mechanics). L20 mage has a minimum of 20 Spell Pen.. so they would roll d20+20+x. X being whatever SP feats they took.

Post by **Rary** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:04 am

Lets not assume everyone against them is level 20 and also, multiclass wizzy's have less of a casterlevel.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:58 pm

I'd go for anything except OnHitDispel.

Weapons with enchantements of +5 rip through all damage reductions, and adding +1d6 (or even +2d6) divine damage makes it a fearful weapon indeed.

But it doesn't last for ever, and it should be possible to dispel it as any other spell.

But if it is made dispellable, as it should, adding the "little" extras similar to what is found in D&D 3.5 would be fun. For PvP purposes on this server, Holy Sword should give an effective immunity to mind spells for the duration of the spell as well as a spell-like ability to cast Greater Dispelling once per round as a standard action. It is possible to do this via scripting without special problems, I have seen many Holy Sword scripts which all do similar things.

Changing it would still make the weapon extremely powerful, in some ways even more powerful. But with such a change, tactical options to defend against a Holy Sword user would be possible. It would be possible to dispel it as any other spell, and it wouldn't be quite as cheap since it doesn't dispel on hit but require the user to make a tactical decition spending a round on trying to dispel or a round to attack as normal.

I also suggest it isn't possible to cast this spell on a weapon with many damage bonuses. It would simply become too powerful to use a +1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 1d6 acid + 1d6 electricity sword with a +5 enchantement bonus and an extra divine damage. Or keen vorpal swords, etc.

The best solution would perhaps be to call forth a summoned sword with a static set of properties.

* +5 Enchantement bonus.
* +2d6 Divine Damage.
* Immunity to Mind-spells.
* Greater Dispelling as a spell-like ability once per round as a standard action.

Anyway, I am just wasting my working hours waiting to go to a party. This wasn't very thought through, it might have some basic problems. Just my current thoughts about this spell.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:54 pm

Ok, I have yet to see you make a paladin on this server. In order to vote for a balanced solution I think you at least have to of BUILT a paladin in the current balance to have any idea.

You want to give paladins MORE damage abilities?

+1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 1d6 acid + 1d6 electricity sword

That's a 1d4 sword.. and paladins can't use it. Look at restrictions on weapons, they are there for a reason. The most dmg a paladin could get from a weapon is 2d6 elemental, which is still too much. I'm thinking a GMW nerf would be good in the way of balance.

in some ways even more powerful.

Exactly so leave it alone.

Needs to be a clause on these input posts.. must have made the class on the server under it's current balance. Just like all the people who voted against mages, half of them didn't even have mages.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Wed May 16, 2007 2:38 pm

I don't like the idea, Paladins do already a lot of damage, crit smites for over 100 dmg with a dagger.... It's fine as it is now.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:12 pm

Please people a dagger is +5 so +5 damage right there..

Scimitar is d6 +4 with dagger d4+5.. Scim dmg range is 5~10 dagger is 6~9.. It's not that big of a deal.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:54 pm

Casas wrote:Ok, I have yet to see you make a paladin on this server. In order to vote for a balanced solution I think you at least have to of BUILT a paladin in the current balance to have any idea.

You want to give paladins MORE damage abilities?

Have you played all the classes? On this version of the server?

It seems to me you are quick to dismiss other people's thoughts without really using any arguments other than "you know better". Please consider the opinions of other people without resorting to firing cheap artillery shells.

Keep in mind your views might not be perfect just because you might - and might not - have played a lot of characters on some version of the server. You might also be surprised not everyone agree to your definition of balance.

Casas wrote:
+1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 1d6 acid + 1d6 electricity sword
That's a 1d4 sword.. and paladins can't use it. Look at restrictions on weapons, they are there for a reason. The most dmg a paladin could get from a weapon is 2d6 elemental, which is still too much. I'm thinking a GMW nerf would be good in the way of balance.

It needn't be exactly that sword. And my example was more general than specific. Some swords with various other abilities would still be well over the top for the use of Holy Sword. Much the same problem as for Greater Magic Weapon.

Casas wrote:
in some ways even more powerful.
Exactly so leave it alone.

I think you deliberately missed the "in some ways" part of this sentence. Be a little helpful here.

Casas wrote: Needs to be a clause on these input posts.. must have made the class on the server under it's current balance. Just like all the people who voted against mages, half of them didn't even have mages.

I usually play mages, but I have made some other types of characters earlier on this server. I have stumbled about with a Cleric and Barbarian.

But it is a mistake trying to stop people from debating just because you think they haven't the needed "expertice". We should examine what people have to say, not judge them in advance.

Who knows, it might be you who discover you are mistaken.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:13 pm

I have played every class on this server. I've been here awhile. I've also played nwn since it was released.

And my example was more general than specific.

Specifically overpowered. They don't have access to a weapon like that. If you're going to use examples, make them realistic.

I don't want them to stop debating, I want the one's with a clue about the topic to step forward. You thought HS was Holy Avenger and were very adamant about it being true. It's my conjecture you've never played a paladin and used our version of holy sword.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:55 pm

Holy Sword is fine. If you're going to add any damage to the weapon, make it...1d6 slashing or something, so they can get through premo or stoneskin for dispel to actually work.

Post by **Rary** » Thu May 17, 2007 10:15 am

Only reason I suggested the +5 over onhitdispel is it hurts mages more and less on other classes that might need the buffs. The extra enchantment is no biggy for warriors.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:01 pm

Making a scythe +5 is more powerful then OnHit dispel..

Post by **Rary** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:29 pm

On melee? I don't think so, but thats me. Its only 2 more enchantment.

Onhit dispel rapes anyone relying on buffs that you can hit.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:01 pm

And render physical damage. OnHit will not trigger unless physical damage has been done. Making a scythe +5 means.. all the paladins power go straight to the d4 mage.

If I were the mage, I'd rather fight holysword then a +5 weapon.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:16 pm

But mages fight +5 waepons all the time and they do fine, and paladins brake through the dr anyways. Also you speak about the d4 mages, but you know too well that noone makes a mage with 10 constitution and without thoughness, mages get around 280 hp on lvl 20 and they don't even need to spend much money on it or sacryfice much precious item slots.