Changes (Positive & Negative)

[Rary]

Hide/Move Silently/Listen/Spot
It was cut in half on what you can get by items and spells. Since this is a drastic change, it could get alittle more tweaks here and there.

Mages AC
Mages rely on spells to protect them, not AC. So I took about 5-6 more AC from them on items that they could get. Since they were the only class that could get +5 armor, this was easy to remove.

Monks
Items changed on them, they should be 100% better against mages. A little better vs. clerics, but won't hang as well against other melee.

Rangers
Rangers special is done. As a result of the boost. Some there stuff that was made to improve them before this change was taken out. That includes alot of there listen/spot items and the cape of +4 and +5.

Evasion Armors
These armors virtually made mages useless. They are now restricted to gnomes.

Weapons
Some have faulty properties that need redone, will be working on redoing most of them so they actually become useful.

Amplify
Changed to +10.

Camo/Mass Camo
+3 to hide and +6 to hide if you're in a natural area.

Clair****
This spell's duration was cut in half. Cap's at 120 seconds.

Obviously alot of changes went into effect. All and all I want to balance the stealth items from getting out of control and keep the the skills worth getting.

I also wanted to get an a good anti-mage, so monks should be the right class for it.

[Casas]

You have to remember +5 weapons exist.. a mage with 20 AC will never be missed by a +5 weapon, and therefore their d4 HP will drop in a matter of moments.

If you cut skills in half, why was camo moved to +3?

Any thought process to evasion for gnomes only?

Am I to assume ALL spot stuff was halved as well? Wouldn't this just make the d20 more potent then. Such as non detect classes [Paladin] seeing sneaks and obliterating them? Cutting all equip skill bonus in half would just make the d20 more effective, perhaps too much. If that being the case (all detect halved) then ranged cs may still be a problem.

I can't seem to find Ranger Armor, you remove it? Yet Rogue Links still have +6 hide/ms. Melee items that you removed hide/ms from really do need those back to have a chance against ranged cs (remember not all stealth classes are rogues with xd6 sneak attack).

[Rafael]

You self don't believe the mage part do you? I can easyly imagine a running mage that just recasts premos as soon as 1 is down spamming anything the noevasion situation has to offer.

[A95]

What where you thinking with monk?

The only thing I saw were those horrible robes. 10/- acid resist and 100% vun to blug.

Makes ice storm own them and bigbies own them.

I was expecting more ont he ms/hide/listen/spot changes.

Was expecting more to be max of 10 from items and spells do minimal bonus.

Such as +10 hide cape.

+10 ms boots.

+10 amulet of listen.

+10 amulet of spot.

Those being the only items to help get ms and hide listen and spot besides wisdom and dex items.

Spells

Amplify doing +1d10.
C&C doing 1d10

Camo doing 5 and not being able to be stacked with mass camo.
one with nature doing +4 to MS only.

[Casas]

So what shields them from +5 weapons? d4 HP. I've said before to balance premo by preventing it and stoneskin from stacking and reducing both by 5 soak.

Not letting camo and mass camo stack is hurting rangers of the 15th+ level.

[Terpeh]

Rangers
Rangers special is done. As a result of the boost. Some there stuff that was made to improve them before this change was taken out. That includes alot of there listen/spot items and the cape of +4 and +5.

Theres nothing left for rangers
How can you raise Hide and MS now?
Oh and I'm not seeing any effects of the animal companions.

[Rafael]

I only mentioned what would happen if you took +5 waepons off.

[Rary]

You have to remember +5 weapons exist.. a mage with 20 AC will never be missed by a +5 weapon, and therefore their d4 HP will drop in a matter of moments.

AC was a minor issue at high levels which is when you get the +5 weapons anyways. This made it so level 10 mages couldn't melee a fighter. AC hit should only be noticable to those at lower levels. Plus all I removed on them was the +4, +5 armors and some AC boosts of staves.

If you cut skills in half, why was camo moved to +3?

Rangers still get a good bit of hide, plus now they get more power than before.

Any thought process to evasion for gnomes only?

Those evasion armors from before were changed to gnome only already.

Am I to assume ALL spot stuff was halved as well? Wouldn't this just make the d20 more potent then. Such as non detect classes [Paladin] seeing sneaks and obliterating them? Cutting all equip skill bonus in half would just make the d20 more effective, perhaps too much. If that being the case (all detect halved) then ranged cs may still be a problem.

They weren't cut back that bad. I pretty much took it from 40 skill points from items to 22 or so.

I can't seem to find Ranger Armor, you remove it? Yet Rogue Links still have +6 hide/ms. Melee items that you removed hide/ms from really do need those back to have a chance against ranged cs (remember not all stealth classes are rogues with xd6 sneak attack).

Ranger armors were removed, they were put in to help rangers before. They were also overpowered. The rogue shields are going back to non-rogue ones.

How can you raise Hide and MS now?
Oh and I'm not seeing any effects of the animal companions.

You raise hide/ms just like you did before. Instead of a 70 hide, you'll get 60 or 55ish.

Are you sure the Ranger special doesn't work? I tested it and it worked for me after the boot.

So what shields them from +5 weapons? d4 HP.

Nothing. They weren't shielded before either. Because someone that can afford defense against a mage and have +5 weapons made it past the AC. But a level 7 mage should not be able to get higher AC than a level 7 fighter.

What where you thinking with monk?
The only thing I saw were those horrible robes. 10/- acid resist and 100% vun to blug.
Makes ice storm own them and bigbies own them.

A good monk should be able to take mages now.

[Terpeh]

Are you sure the Ranger special doesn't work? I tested it and it worked for me after the boot.

It didnt work for me, I had Wolf, and if I remember, Wolf adds ab or attack damage, and I saw no changes, could be a temprary thing.

[Rary]

How many levels of Ranger?

Yes, wolf is AB.

[A95]

You cast animal comp in base pick a companion.

REST.

Cast it in the arena and it gives you the bonus.

[Rary]

You cast animal comp in base pick a companion.

REST.

Cast it in the arena and it gives you the bonus.

Yes, do what he said. Did I not document that right anywhere?

[Terpeh]

Hm i'll try as A95 said.

Edit: neato it works, my bad

[A95]

You cast animal comp in base pick a companion.

REST.

Cast it in the arena and it gives you the bonus.

Yes, do what he said. Did I not document that right anywhere?

Nope it doesn't say anywhere to rest after summoning.

[Rary]

Nope it doesn't say anywhere to rest after summoning.

Well, thats commonsense. You get 1 cast per rest.