Reducing Mage Power

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:26 pm

This poll will run for 14 days. We've all seen the arguments in the other thread so lets get solid opinions on what needs to be done.

Post by **Rary** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:33 pm

I say AC for sure. Maybe a tad in detect, but not much.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:46 pm

Yea, just remove the only effective non-cs detector.

I also dare you to show one mage that has an AC that's too high. Mine's only 42 or 43 in battle gear, and he's got 400K GP. But that was before hardies were taken. They don't have armor, or shields.. just conceal and a few dispellable AC buffs (of which there are better equips for others). W/e +5 weapons and all the mage immunity I guess just isn't enough, let's kill off their AC.

A95 · Post by **A95** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:58 pm

Well, I cast my vote for AC and detect gear. I just want to clarify this though.

Allow mages to wear the +3 rings of listen/spot.
Don't allow them to wear the +10 amulet or helm.
Allow them to were the +5 listen/spot helm (I think there is one)
Don't allow them to wear the boots of hardiness (+AC and Con)
Lower C&C to +5/+5 (Maybe)

I'd like them to be able to hear sneaks but not get outrageous listen and spot like they were getting before (around 80 and 90)

Post by **Rary** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:00 pm

I'm not looking at level 20, cause a lvl 20 player will hit you regardless.

The problem right now is 1 AC is cheaper than getting 1 AB so it hurts low levels. I'd rather have this swap'd personally.

Mages aren't the only people that can detect sneaks.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:00 pm

They maxed listen at 76. Show me a class that can go toe-toe with a sneak (that doesn't have to stealth itself). Bards are NOT anti-cs.. they may hear them, but they will die quick to a cs.

If a L20 will hit you regardless, then why do you need to nerf AC for 20s? AC is cheaper than AB.. because each level you gain BAB for free, but no AC (unless it's class tied).

Post by **Rary** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:06 pm

A barbarian can DR the entire class. Other melees can DR most of it. Mages can take them without seeing them. Another archer can detect and kill him. With any amount of money given at lvl 20.
Throw axes, the archer will die eventually.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Well, the immunity amulet. I did say that was corny though.. should be removed. TRM agreed with me on that. Mages can't beat them w/o seeing them.. the sneak wears soul of rak, he can't hit them with anything but horrid.. and that's tk friendly.

Ah! Another archer, stealth character. So we have to bring cs to fight cs. Joy. Throwing axes won't work against cs. ~shakes head~ it will help, but unless you're on a non-friendly sneak map. You die.

Post by **Rary** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:14 pm

Remove that ammy then yes, now you have sneaks as the most powerful class.

I think hide/listen/ms/spot all need reworked anyways.
I don't think mages should be the best spotters though. All sneaks should have a slight chance of being found by every class. (If this is possible)

Protoss119 · Post by **Protoss119** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:18 pm

Take them without seeing them? You mean throwing Ice Storms, Horrid Wiltings, and all sorts of AoEs around, right? No, if you're going to nerf Mages, that won't work anymore. Mages aren't the only characters that can spot the sneaks, sure, but they're the only ones that UNCONSIOUSLY take Listen/Spot (I.e. The Recommended button, with edits and all). Builds that are made for spotting sneaks die quickly to hordes of melees, and melees die quickly to the sneaks. There's no real solution here, is there?

And yes, sneaks have a slight chance of being found on rolling a natural 20...by then, the average joe has died about 5 times already.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:25 pm

There are no natural 20's in detect.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:54 pm

At level 16 Drunken could reach around 40 ac with his mage. I'd say that's substantial seeing how my chars ab was something like 34 at level 16. Means my final swing -won't- hit and my second last swing almost certainly won't hit. 2 out of 5 missing before taking concealment into consideration is a lot of defensive power for a mage.

I disagree that a bard won't beat a cs'er. Afterall the bard can just get throwing axes like the corner sneaker and hear them just as quick while remaining outside of sneak attack range...if they have sneak attack.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:55 pm

I believe he was using expertise. Which would mean, take expertise away from pure wizards, not remove all their AC from wizards that DON'T have expertise.

Oh please, I saw you on your bard.. you logged someone ELSE to fight a cs.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:56 pm

He was casting at me...so no he wasn't.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:57 pm

You can cast in expertise.

Reducing Mage Power

How to reduce mage power

Reducing Mage Power