Pendant of Ares

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:11 pm

A monk with ghostly visage is deadly at lower levels versus a mage. It's actually the other way around. Monks need help at higher levels because almost every other class and build surpass them in everything except speed.

Monks should be making a mages life miserable, but for now, they are not.

A95 · Post by **A95** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:21 pm

If you argue effectiveness with a +5 dagger you would only use that against a DR PC. Why would a monk always be using a +5 ab glove when they could have +4 ab and d10 extra damage?

Mountain is effective with a dagger 1d4+15

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:23 am

mountain is a barb/rdd what do you expect?

and meph, spine can put up a pretty good fight against helmut kaal, but its pretty even. and that's only because of her cleric levels. now if nedin ever decided to come back, asusming Nedin RUler of Death isnt deleted, hed massacre many mages. he just has cursed haste which is a a downfall.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:37 am

My monk beat drunken mage. :-/ But mine's STR.

DEX monks have the reflex to avoid spells, mine did not. Ice storm can be stopped EASILY with -20 cold amulet. L20 monks have +1/20

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:40 am

Musekaze wrote:mountain is a barb/rdd what do you expect?

and meph, spine can put up a pretty good fight against helmut kaal, but its pretty even. and that's only because of her cleric levels. now if nedin ever decided to come back, asusming Nedin RUler of Death isnt deleted, hed massacre many mages. he just has cursed haste which is a a downfall.

What in the Nine Hells did you just say?

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:45 am

T3hRedMage wrote:A monk with ghostly visage is deadly at lower levels versus a mage. It's actually the other way around. Monks need help at higher levels because almost every other class and build surpass them in everything except speed.

Monks should be making a mages life miserable, but for now, they are not.

Hmm... I am still uncertain about Monks being ineffective against Mages at high levels. It doesn't fit in the reality I know.

When I fight Monks, they are usually not seen until they spam knockdown, stunning fist or quivering palm for a few rounds and running away the moment I start casting spells. Then they appear some rounds later and repeat what they just did. It is possible to fight them, but their spell resistance and high saves isn't the major problem even though it can be nasty alone. Their ability to just run away and make it near impossible to target them with spells is the main concearn. Not unlike the problems with corner sneakers who excel in making it impossible to target them. The only way it is possible to fight them is to spam area spells all over the place, which isn't usually very clever since you very soon could find yourself moo-ing and/or greatly annoying other players.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:00 am

I suggest you practice using your aoe's a bit better then. Any sneaking character is counting on you targeting them rather then the ground. If you can successfully target the ground instead of the person you'll find your luck improving against speedy/sneaky targets greatly.

I won't argue against the effectiveness of strength monks against casters. They destroy them. However strength monks are built pretty much for that purpose and very nearly that purpose alone. They can't touch ac tanks who have even cross-class points in listen and they can't contend with anyone with DR. They're pretty good against sneaks as the second the sneaker screws up and can't make it around that corner in time they're toast.

The main trouble is that giving monks +5 gloves will just make strength monks that much better against mages but would finally let dex monks be useful against them. Seems to me to be the problem of overpowering strength monks against casters while making dex monks useful against them.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:56 am

But Strength Monks are the easiest thing to detect ever.... Stopping Ice storm with a 20 cold resist amulet? That's new an Ice storm or an empowered Ice Storm can crank out much more dmg. Perhaps a str monk has the dmg to kill the mage, still they aren't that good against mages (Deseth is an exeption he'd own you with a full plate int archer

)

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:56 pm

*chuckles* I have one and I could show you the errors of your ways. My monk breaks premo. in 1.5 rounds. After that concentration failure and high damage make quick work of mages. The trouble is from what I've seen dex mages are completely ignorable. A mage that knows how to stop a monk easily beats them, the dex monk just generally dies faster.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:51 pm

So... +5 amulet for monks?

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:51 pm

I say, yay - +5 ares for monks. They'll have to wear cursed haste, or no haste.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:37 am

Yeah.. my saves are horrid with Kung Lao.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:46 am

Hmm monk saves are the highest of any class. It has 12 fort, reflex and will at L20.

Heavy_Metal-2000 · Post by **Heavy_Metal-2000** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:15 am

what do u mean unrelated

everyone is complaning monks dont are not getting anough AB to fight other melee classes when thee not even designed for it anyways. They own mages a la max but ur gonna help monks fight better against everything and make them even deadlier to mages.

Rary already said he wanted monks to have a bit of trouble with fighters and mages the same but the more u add to monks the more u gotta add somewhere else to keep things at least semi fair. (fighting monks with a wiz these days is impossible if u dont get lucky and break one of there usually high saves with sumthin that keeps them still)

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:15 pm

Use no save spells luke...