Pendant of Ares

Post by **Rary** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:53 pm

Rafael wrote:It's not ab it's +2 dmg.

Oh, damn I thought that was AB.

Sorry mate.

But anyways, should monks get the +4/+5? Don't know, I wanted to make sure they were mage eaters first, not fighter bashers.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:56 pm

Pure Monks Only and it would be fine then.

Post by **Rary** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:58 pm

The reason being is monks were supposed to be the nemesis to mages, mages to fighters, fighters to monks. The triangle effect. I'd rather see them get +5 gloves and see how that goes.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:12 pm

Crappy 1d4 weapon? You mean.. awesomely uber +5 weapon. 46 AB with a +5 weapon is godly. There is nothing crappy or needy about that.

Let's add up a monks AB, considering extremes.

15+13+4+1 ( focus )= 33 if you have 36 strength or dex. 36 with level 3 pendant. That's 10 AB less than a barbarian with a +5 weapon, when a monk can't access +5 weapons and still obtain their monklyness.

You say that barbarians have trouble fighting 50 AC, try fighting that with 33 AB.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:35 pm

You can actually reach 37 ab with a monk if you go halfling and are fighting a medium sized creature. Mind you that doesn't mean much against a 50 ac guy with 46 ab. Monk ac won't top 60 so you're pretty much dead as a doornail against them.

I wouldn't mind monks gaining the +5 amulets as they could use the boost. DR tanks will still beat them, AC tanks will still beat them (+2 more ab is nice but when you've got 10-15 ab less then there ac you're f'd) and smart players can put up there spot gear to beat them (they're pretty weak when it comes to ms).

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:27 pm

Wow.. yea, I wanna see the effective half-orc barbarian using a dagger, or the halfing one throwing darts to kill it's targets. -_-

Ares does mean you wear cursed haste, except for fighters.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:09 pm

lol why not? Kerrie uses a kukri and I'd say that's damn effective. One can hardly argue with that. d4 isn't just a dagger remember. 18-20 crit range from a kukri doing what? 2 damage less then a d8 weapon. Extremely deadly against clerics/druids/mages as well. I'm pretty sure that qualifies.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:40 pm

Kukri > dagger.

I think D&D should of implemented dmg decrements for using weapons that were too small for the race. Such as we get dmg increments for using 2h weapons. Dunno just a thought.

Post by **Rary** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:12 am

Only use the Kukri on mages, the bastard sword does more damage for me when AB isn't a factor.

But anyways, I can make those ammies for monks then if you want.

Heavy_Metal-2000 · Post by **Heavy_Metal-2000** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:45 pm

I think if this is the case and monks are getting AB to be able to fight fighters and such when they alrdy own mages as it is then why not put the KD vloak back in there somewhere for pure wiz/sorcs only??

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:00 pm

That's completely un-related to the topic Heavy-Metal. Mages do not need help fighting fighters. Monks get ownt by any high level melee pretty much. They don't even have the upper-hand on mages when it comes down to it. They might be able to pull a two death one kill ratio to any mage with current gear.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:41 am

The problem with Monks vs. Mages is their speed. A mage cannot react and cast spells, not unlike the problem with corner sneaking.

A fully magically protected mage can stand up to a Monk without serious problems if the Monk don't use cheap tactics like knockdown spam and running away. But usually, a Monk runs away before a spell can be cast. At least, it is perfectly possible to play that way. Monks die on damage shields.

Unbuffed mages are eaten away by Monks because of their speed.

If Monks gain more power, they will eat even fully buffed mages all the time without the need of any clever/cowardous tactics.

Monks do have the upper hand against mages. Just not 100 % of the time.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:52 am

Tell me what stops the mage to cast a few webs too slow the monk down? Also if the speed was a problem like you say Mages wouldn't spank monks that badly like they do. I had no problem with monks at all when i was making my first mage.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:51 am

I've never had a problem with monks either. If you know how to play against a monk you'll do perfectly fine. The problem is people try and fight monks like they fight fighters. If someones kd spamming you a mage should be immune to it. Keeping a damage shield up keeps most at bay and casting icestorm at the corner they're running for not on them themselves kills nearly all monks quite quickly.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:14 am

Hmmm... Let us not make this thread into a Monk power debate.

But I'll check my mage against some Monks ingame (if I ever manage to have some free time nowadays) and try the reality. Perhaps my understanding of fighting Monks isn't updated for the current item/rule setting on this server.

I am pretty sure killing Monks are annoying business if the player do what they can to make a mage's life miserable. It is all too easy to transform into cattle if you use targeted area spells. And I don't really see how it is possible to do anything wrong with a Monk with dispel rods, hide, high attack bonus, divine/magic damage gloves, knockdown, high speed, high saves, spell resistance, immunities, healing, stunning fists, quivering palm, etc. At low levels, a Monk is no good against a mage, but at high levels they can be incredible. And if they do need a boost, it should be only something which is useful in early levels.