Cleric BAB

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:41 pm

That was from bless and aid or bless and favor. Easily dispellable with a the cheap 5k rod.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:46 pm

True, however I have 2-3 casts of each. Thereby making it far more costly to remove then to cast. After all 3 ab lost doesn't crush a build and darkfire can't be dispelled

15k isn't that much money but if you play it right it gives you 2-3 rounds of free hits while they dispel.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:56 pm

Or you would of been better off taking a full BAB class. -_-

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:45 am

Well at the time it was 2/3 but overall I think I made a better choice with Cleric. Purge is -great-. Not to mention a number of spells which allow my char to do some fun things (such as invis). I took very little AB off my char for the ability dispel conceal from imp invis and turn invisible myself along with some healing to let me last longer.

An effective build and uses some cleric, not to shabby really.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:09 am

Purge is dispellable too. See Invis is a 3k rod. Using purge sounds like you were fighting a mage.. My moneys on the mage.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:19 am

Mages had trouble with that char. Generally because of silence and I had 400+ hp along with very high for and will saves

That was my DD character. That guy could kill most straight melees, save paladins who's unresistable damage types generally meant I lost by just a little each time.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:31 pm

How'd you beat a mage after it dispels your buffs? Four maxed chains and you're gone. The mage can recast imp invis, you can't recast purge with .. L5 cleric? Maybe twice. They still need their BAB restored, and war domain removed. That would bring back melee clerics and diminish some caster clerics.

Caster clerics can only do melee well with Divine Power.. which does nothing.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:46 pm

I strongly disagree. With 15 BAB they can get higher ab then most melee's and while +5 ab from War domain makes them quite insane it's hardly all war domains fault melee clerics are insane. If you build one and know how to play it properly you can kill every other class nearly 2/1 (save mages who can sometimes go 1:1 with a smart player).

Also caster clerics with 16 base strength only end up with 3 ab less then when using max'd strength then a melee cleric. That's hardly bad with 15 bab. That's what? 38 ab? That's only a caster cleric, god forbid you make a melee cleric with higher ab/damage/ac then most class melee classes.

Clerics used to be an extremely overpowered melee class and it wasn't just because divine power or war domain.

-It was a different time for that char. He could wear imp. evasion armor and that 30/- elemental ammy. Made casters cry. Also he had blindfight so imp. invis wasn't a breaking point of that build, it was just a nice touch. It's the same way your tank beats casters Casas and we both know that while it's not the best anti-caster it does pretty well against most EW players.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:13 pm

Removing War Domain and restoring their BAB keeps their AB exactly the same. Just gives them 1 more APR, which is what a melee needs. Divine Power gave them Fighter BAB, so they get an extra attack and 5 AB.

The numbers your crunching are pretty tough, I've made quite a few clerics, most have 14 or 16 STR base, and they don't get that AB if they want to cast well. Zen Archers are the best choice for cleric atm, and he only has 32 AB +7 from surge buff. Disc-less so.. not hard to kd him. That's 37 for 30 seconds + CHA rounds for war domain (keep in mind negative modifier counts). War Domain is pretty weak.. if you want to build it effectively you lose WIS or STR.. less you wanna make a d7 cleric.

My tank can't beat casters w/o imp evasion. No one's can.. tanks don't have reflex.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:37 pm

Xianio wrote:Mages had trouble with that char. Generally because of silence and I had 400+ hp along with very high for and will saves That was my DD character. That guy could kill most straight melees, save paladins who's unresistable damage types generally meant I lost by just a little each time.

Exploiting the buggy Silence spell is THE cheapest exploit in the PvP game. It is even worse than Spell Mantle spam, Knockdown spam and Devastating Critical!

There should be a save on Silence, but a bug when castin it on yourself rids of that save for all enemies brought into it's area.

As it works today, Silence is equivalent of Magic Invulnerability. Which is TOTALLY unbalanced if it was a level 9 spell. Yet, Silence is a level 2 spell.

This exploit should indeed be fixed ASAP.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:49 pm

Silence isn't a big deal, it can be gusted away, you can use silent spells, and bards and mages have a spell that gives immunity to it, and unless the silencer uses that spell he is silenced as well.

Lord Mephisto · Post by **Lord Mephisto** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:05 pm

Rafael wrote:Silence isn't a big deal, it can be gusted away

You can't "gust" anything away when you can't cast spells.

Also, keep in mind how casting spells in NWN work. It is not instantanious. When you see someone with a Silence Aura around them running towards you from afar, you start casting a spell and soon realizes the aura has reached you before completing the spell. And then, you are dead.

Rafael wrote: you can use silent spells

You can't expect someone to waste an entire feat just to be able to avoid becoming 100 % useless from a simple level 2 spells available to nearly any divine caster of level 3 or higher.

And not all casters can use spontanious spells you know. It's not like a wizard, cleric or druid prepares all their spells with the Silent feat. Metamagic is only a solution for sorcerers and bards, who are more than powerful enough already.

Rafael wrote: bards and mages have a spell that gives immunity to it

No they don't. Which one are you thinking about?

Rafael wrote: unless the silencer uses that spell he is silenced as well
.

It doesn't really mean anything to be silenced if all you want to do is hack and slash anyway.

Add a proper will-save to the spell when used on self, and it is fine. It is a level 2 spell for the love of God!

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:24 pm

No they don't. Which one are you thinking about?

I dunno it's english name, it's either lvl 5 for bards gives some conceal and immunity to lvl2 spells.

Post by **Rary** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:32 pm

I never changed the Cleric BAB, its always been that way.

Divine power and those type of spells I did.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:33 pm

lol yes you did Rary. It's 1/2 BAB now, it used to be 2/3's BAB. I know tanks can't beat good mages, I just said many on EW which doesn't always consist of the best mage players

All I was saying was that cleric gave it a means to combat them which most don't have access to, therefore cleric was useful.

Meph. quit getting all in a fuss over silence. It's -easily- avoidable. Mantles, SR, Globes, Silent Spell (being able to move a spell up one level is quite useful), ethreal visage or hell even dispels count. Silence is only useful against mages who never took the time to read the spell and find out its weakness. It's like anti-mage advanced tactics, something not everybody knows which seperates the good from the average players