Reducing Mage Power

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:05 pm

Oh....so what's the difference then? Expertise or not that's 5 more ac.

Oooo I have an idea. If the AC thing gets turned down why don't we add a script that gives people who use expertise a -25 concentration score if they're bab = lvl/2.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:08 pm

Expertise is 5 more AC, or not is no more AC.

Yea, I like that idea.. however, does that mean mages can keep their AC? The ones that DON'T have expertise to give them unfair advantage?

Personally, just jail anyone with 12 or more wizard levels that has expertise.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:10 pm

I'm only suggesting that if and only if the "lower ac" option doesn't win the poll. Might suggest it later again but who knows.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:16 pm

But only those mages who have expertise are peeving you.

I know what happen, you went to fight drunken's mage who is a PM/mage with expertise and is build for HP/AC and you got mad. Came in here, that's where the bias attitude originated. Tell me I'm wrong.

Either way, most mages don't get but 30 AC, and they don't need to get hit everytime from a +5dagger or kukri.. my god they won't live as d4.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:59 pm

No, I wasn't mad. I was enjoying fighting drunken's mage as I got to play around with like 3-5 different items and rods to make myself nearly immune to most things....he was still beating me 1:1 even with all that. I wrote my post after my computer had broken and wasn't able to play nwn. I didn't come here after playing EWA at all. I was bored and was trying to figure out how to make mages more even with the rest of us.

Casas I understand that you're trying to undermine me here by suggesting that all of this is nothing more then a long rant because I couldn't "own" drunken or any other mage in a fight (you'd be wrong in that assumption anyway) but if my points have made others agree and if you cannot discount them through any other means but trying to mask my arguments as nothing but angry ranting then I would say that I've made my points into solid cases.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:44 pm

Ok, so it was 1:1 problem is? (You can't wear soul of rak until L19.. which you aren't yet? and were you wearing evasion?)

A95 · Post by **A95** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:16 pm

Yea, I saw a hafling casting in light/medium armor and a large shield (still spell most likely) with expertise and no one could hit him. It was a level 7.

Mages should not be able to wear any other armor besides the robe type (0 ac +) and they should only be allowed to use small shields (incase they want the 50% DR they can still get it)

Expertise should turn off when you cast a spell too, because a cleric could get expertise and have insanely high AC.

Protoss119 · Post by **Protoss119** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:40 am

Well, Mages don't have that much AC anyway - they rely on DR - so I suppose an AC decrease is in order.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:08 am

They don't have AC though.. only one's that take expertise become problems. Not their AC.. go around and take a peek at mage AC of some of the people on the server, it's going to be under 30~40. Their DEX is normally 18 (with a buff, if they use them).. they might squeeze in 2 from Tumble..

10 base + 4 DEX + 2 Tumble + 3 Armor + 4 Shadow + 4 Deflect +4 haste + 1 mage armor = 32 AC

That's ridiculous... they will NEVER survive against anyone with a +5 dagger. +5 dagger would be about 40/35/30/25/40 AB, they would be hard up to miss at all. d4 class won't live but a few rounds, all while struggling to make Conc checks on uninhibited dmg.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:04 pm

I love how you're trying to make it seem like I'm doing this for completely selfish reasons Casas. Ah well you can think whatever you want about my motivations, it has no effect on me and obviously isn't affecting how these polls are coming out.

Oh and I couldn't afford improved evasion at that level. Amazing how level 16's have to pick and choose what things they wish to be immune to. Ah well as far as I'm concerned the biggests parts of this discussion are over and the points which have been made seem to be leaning heavily in favor of a mage AC nerf with a 50/50 split on the detect gear nerf for mages.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:35 pm

Evasion is 20k.. we are discussing L20 balance, and that's a cheap price. Only out of ignorance, are people voting to nerf the classes AC.

The class only get's AC if they take expertise.. which should be the concern, not the +5 hard boots.

A95 · Post by **A95** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:31 pm

Actually evasion armor is 30k. I think that the shortsword is 20k but people would usually go for a +5 weapon vs mages.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:48 pm

You were trying to make it seem as if I was complaining over my fight with drunken. We were both level 16 not level 20. If we're talking about level 20 balance then why would my fight with drunken have anything to do with this discussion as a comparison on what I should have done?

Now I for one like to believe that I'm not the only one who notices balance issues and that I'm not the only one with ideas on how to fix things. I for one like to believe myself as not being ignorant but the tone of your post suggests that you believe that you're the only one who knows what's best for this server. Now I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here Casas but I think it's about time you stop trying to act as if you know exactly what's best and that anyone elses ideas which don't compare to yours are spur of the moment ideas which have no thought put into them.

I highly suggest you rethink the way you word your posts because you may not mean them to come off in this way or I might be taking them the wrong way but saying that everyone else is ignorant but you is a rather grandiose statement.

Protoss119 · Post by **Protoss119** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:15 pm

Of course, everyone is ignorant for making their views known. Is that how it is with you, Casas?

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:49 pm

Balance concerns L20. Not L7-19.. otherwise paladins would need uber buffs till L9. We went over this.

Evasion armor is 20k. So my input has no thought in it? Interesting. You said yourself without all the mage armor the server offers you went 1:1 with drunks AC mage.. that's no reason to nerf them.

I highly suggest you rethink the way you word your posts because you may not mean them to come off in this way or I might be taking them the wrong way

are spur of the moment ideas which have no thought put into them.

You wouldn't know balance if it bit you in the aft. Let's nerf a class, w/o shields.. or armor because they can get expertise, instead of just taking expertise away from them.. let's kill all of the one's that don't take expertise.

Let's focus on mage AC, which is low.. instead of PM/RDDs who have the highest AC on the server (along with full armor caster.. of which NO one has).

My idea of balance isn't killing a class.

Reducing Mage Power

How to reduce mage power