Bards...again

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:11 am

* Coughs *

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:55 am

Roflamao the aura was ADDED to bards xD I don't think they needed it in the first place, same goes for increase of song duration and ab increase, after those Large burst however people started playing Bards.
Well after thinking it over I agree that bards shouldn't have expertise ( A DM will have to dlvl mine AGAIN =[ xD) however IMo it's not fair to me that they should loose so much, with halfed conceal and blind fight Imp Invis becomes useless, they are more vulnerable to sneaks since there is a much higher possibility for the to get hit by sneak attacks. Pure Bards get to tank with 48 ac against 40+ ab with d6 hp and less apr then MOST of the melee builds have. Bards are and will be always extremely vulnerable to casters, it's their weakness and Gnarr by every means you will not convince me otherwise

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:13 am

T3hRedMage wrote:* Coughs *

*hand him a nail, chair, and rope* that will fix your cold.lol

what was rong with bards in the first place that they needed to give the a improved song. why cant you just give them back there equipment/nerfs and make there song normal again?

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:16 pm

You're still acting like pure bards are the only thing that you can make with the bard class, that's your problem. Just because pure bards can't -crush- casters a bard/paladin certainly can. Aside from the skill bonuses and the aura though a multi-bard is always better and lets face it, pretending those multi's don't exist is just like putting on sunglasses at night.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:38 pm

~Sings~ I wear my sunglasses at night, so I can, so I can, watch you weave then breath your story lines.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:56 pm

You see Gnarr i don't want to pretend that multiclasses don't exist

However the entire point (MIne and very much Shauna's) that bards are nothing unless multiclassed It ISN"t worth at all staying pure not even a bit, the only bonus over multiclass chars is the aura wchich anyone can be immune to with some sonic resist or simply better saves, I'd choose a bard multiclassed with Paladin,fighter,ranger,pm,rdd any time over that. A Bard/Paladin can NOT smack over a mage..from what I understand you mereley are talking about the save bonus, really helpfull against Ice Storm,Horrids magical and negative dmg oh please... As For the divine might/power based Bards I suggested a nerf Loooong ago. As a side note if it is Bard multiclasses wchich you want to weaken, why do you encourage them by nerfing the bard class instead weakining some multiclass conections? I don't get it, IMO I'm doing the math right and I PLAY bards alll the time, I also DO Fight against Bards with other builds and do beat them.
As a Side note, Gnarr, stick a little bit more to the reality, and save me the explonation that bard/pallys or w/e else bards can fight casters because since I've used many bard builds against different casters and know the limits, and see it as a big Overstatement.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:08 pm

My pure bard kicked booty, and because of his awesomeness-ness bards are now nerfed. BLAME DIB!

Pally bard can beat a mage.. +5 dagger with some divine dmg +saves makes just ice storm and horrid a problem.. and cold amulet and some quick smacking can put a mage in their place.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:31 am

Pally/Bard is Vurneable to dispell since he has 16 bard 4 pally or 17 bard 3 Pally(For divine might), Evasion armor Is gone, and going for saves reduces the amount of con gear you can wear

It is certanly not that simple

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:21 am

Uhmm OK? So he loses what? GMW and Divine Might are all he needs to kill the mage.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:48 am

GMW is ab and he will loose the charisma and str buff

Wchich means his saves and dmg will go down, and recasting that under mage fire might be problematic, not to mention that he will more then likely loose 80% of his HP before he even reaches the mage who has 200-300 hp himself.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:37 am

Damage won't go down.. divine might is locked in and nondispellable. Recasting your buffs during a fight? You need a paradigm shift. You don't recast buffs in the middle of a fight unless you have SR/mantles.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:45 am

That's not my Point, the point is that the Bard lacks HP to kill the mage. I know very well they can pierce premo/stone skin but only that isn't enough if it was that simple Mages wouldn't have such power over melee

And The Dmg will go down when DM ends, having it for 6 -7 rounds and wearing save and elemental resist gear that's what it is.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:50 pm

hmm a pally/bard? if there saves are good then take 2 levels in SD for evasion. then you will have to worry less about some of the mage spells.

Xianio · Post by **Xianio** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:23 pm

You keep saying you know the limits yet with my bard (who wasn't even a bard/pally) count generally crash through them fast. It's a matter of wearing the right gear and using +5 weapons. Hell if you've got Kukri focused you've got an undispellable +5 keened weapon. You can easily do 15-30 damage a hit with that with a strength bard..probably more but I didn't do the math.

Generally with pally you're looking at +7-9 divine damage, then strength then enhancement then keen. It's a d6 class sure, but when you're not going to fail any saves and have 20 dr against all elements you really don't need to worry to much against a d4 class, moreso if you spam called shots.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:36 pm

Who cares? You guys are bringing up the same points over and over in the THIRD thread about bards. They keep getting more and more nerfs.

Let's just take expertise away from them. I still want pure bards to recieve their tower shields back, but I do not want any bard to have expertise. Call it a trade for 20 tumble.