Shadowdancers

A95 · Post by **A95** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:24 pm

*Sighs* Your a little snappy.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:26 pm

lol sorry. ok i take back the Your sneak. im sure some of your sneaks can kill the arti holder to. i just dont see why everyone is so crazy over such a short time of immune to crits. it most likey wont even last a entier battle with a bunch of high lvls on. mabe if it was one on one it would last the entire battle but in a battle with lots of people(team pvp) thats just not the case.

Casas · Post by **Casas** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:28 pm

Wth is this topic about?

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:29 pm

summon shadow give immune to crits for a short duration and some magic dmg instead of what it currently has

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:32 pm

We plan on extending the duration. That's what I've been trying to explain to you today. Right now it doesn't last long, but right now, it gives A LOT of bonuses. Changing to +10 damage a hit is completely insane. Clerics can't stack that much damage on buffs per hit minus darkfire. If you use a kukri or raiper, that's a solid +20 a crit. Ridiculous.

Immunity to critical hits? No. Simply no. We shouldn't keep having to explain this. No need to give them a feat that gives them what only a 100 K amulet gives, for free. Your arguement is that PM's get it. So what? We didn't suggest that PM's should get it. We only gave PM's the ability to regen, which honestly, is the only thing that makes them good right now. They have always bee decent tanks, but the regen makes them appeal more to players.

Our changes will make SD more appealable, not a jewel in the eye of everyone who wants to make a sneak. The current changes give a universal appeal to builds where your suggestions make a dexer SD tank sneaker weirdo the only option.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:50 am

even if its decided what i suggested wont work. the cray stuff you giveing them just sucks. and makeing it long just makes you have a longer time of getting nouthing. i would rather have summon shadow poly me into a shadow then get you think is decent. once the builds are finished youll see how sucky the buffs you give are. Also i never said they had to be the jewel of sneakers but they dont have to be coal.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:52 am

and with that. * Pad locks *

Post by **Rary** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:13 pm

Here's my say on this.

Shadowdancers, as Daniel said, they fight using the shadows as their theme. Making them immune to crits isn't in that theme. They are not undead or a dragonlike creature. Playing in with the shadows you'd think they would get a good concealment bonus as their defense. Boosting concealment I don't have a problem with.

Immunity to critical hits is on PM's and artifact. The artifact is just that, its an artifact to be held by your team. Anyone on the other team wants the artifact because of the power so you 'should' get gangbanged for having it.

Artifact is hard for sneaks, the reason why they got the shadow weapons to begin with and the artifact holder got a 100% positive vulnerability.

PM's are themed as undead. Their AB sucks so immunity to crits keeps them useful and in theme and it comes with the package anyways. I wouldn't mind giving them all the benefits of undead and lowering their AC anyways. But thats another topic.

Summon Shadow gives them acid damage. Really to keep them in theme of the shadows, it should've been negative? But I didn't think this was fair because negative protection blocks all that damage and acid seems to be the next of choice for them. Yes they can get boots to block 10 damage of it, but now your weapon damage and any other damage bonuses will go through. Whats the difference if they block 10 piercing or 10 acid? If they block acid, they opened themselves to other player damages more.

I think Shadowdancers are pretty good, but not sure really.
I don't want you guys to think I never like to change things but giving magical damage and immune to crits makes a "HUGE" balance issue. The duration is getting increased on summon shadow and I wouldn't mind shadowevade getting tweaked alittle.

Summon Shadow is currently 3 minutes + at 10th level. I don't think its that short?

Sorry for the book.

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:09 am

* Rubs hands together and does a little thread necromancy *

I just got an idea. We have all this gear that gives rogues benefits to hide. . . but our shadow dancers abilties don't even them any hiding benefits. We took their only one away.

I know Shadow Dancers pull shadows around them, or manipulate the shadow plane and stuff. . but shouldn't they be the ' epitome ' of stealth? While a rogue is more of. . the jack of trades, ( and by far the only user of those nasty traps. )

Any ideas on how to fix this? Currenty they have no benefits from special gear, weapons or feats.

I just got around to testing two SD builds. One strength melee, the other dex sneaker. I don't think anyone has progessed one far enough.

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:41 am

couldn't we change their summon shadow abilities and stuff to hide/ms bonuses bases on SD level?

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:22 am

I like the abilities they get currently. .

But I don't understand the -2AB thing? You pentalize them 2 AB for the damage?

Their AB is already pretty whack.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:21 am

Was thinking about this class and how about,

summon shadow- ranged conceal, attack bonus, bonus saves, and ac

shadow evade- same but adds hide bonus of 1/2SD levels

shadow daze changed to- heartbeat invis, recast invis on you every round for X rounds.

Also was thinking give SDs a unsticker that can be used 1/1 day/SD lvls, this unsticker doesnt dispell you and desnt make you wait. so its a instant teleport to a random spot on the map.(would make it much more fun to play a SD) and it would be usefull to more then just a sneak.

tell me what you think. if you want to know why i chose these bonuses ill be glad to share why i think they are fitting for a SD.

Musekaze · Post by **Musekaze** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:07 pm

shadow daze would more than likely stay shadow daze. its entirely useful. as for the untucker i think its just a bit much. their shadow dancers. not shadow teleporters.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:14 pm

Musekaze wrote: for the untucker i think its just a bit much. their shadow dancers. not shadow teleporters.

not true, in dnd they get it. thats where i got the idea in the first place.

in DND its

not shadow daze, but shadow illusion(witch mimics Silent image, witch does= creates a minor illusion of your desigh)

and they get the skill called shadow jump.(jumps from shadow to shadow)

T3hRedMage · Post by **T3hRedMage** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:05 pm

I don't like the shadow teleport idea. It sounds very frustrating and if you're fighting someone with a lot of spot and a bow, you could be teleported into the perfect pin cushion position.

+1 Hide/ 2 SD levels isn't enough. Harpers get a ' major ' bonus to spot/listen.

Rogues have benefits from spot/listen/hide/ms from a shield and if they're pure from gaurdsman daggers. That's almost a +10 to all skills from equipment that shadow dancers can't wear because of class restirctions. So to give them an ability that can't match up to equipment doesn't seem fair.

I think it should be +5/2 SD levels. It sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. If it's an ability it will not surpass the +50 magical cap bonus. In the end, the benefit this will give SD's is the freedom to max Hide/ MS that other classes can for ' less ' gold. So they can spend their money on rods or other things.